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Kanagawa Standing Drinking Culture Talk Vol.1 “Bad Places and Underground”

神奈川・立ち呑み文化放談 Vol.1 「悪場所とアングラ」

2014.4.1 Text: Akiko Inoue Photo: Masamasa Nishino
 
Chikara FUJIWARA
Editor, critic, freelancer. Hosted by BricolaQ. Born in Kochi City in 1977. At the age of 12, he moved to Tokyo and started living alone in Tokyo. After that, he moved around a lot, and after working for a publishing company, became a freelancer. Responsible for editing magazines such as ``Expo'', Musashino Art University public relations magazine ``mauleaf'', and Setagaya Public Theater ``Caromag''. Co-edited with Riki Tsujimoto, ``Book Guide as Architecture'' (Meigetsudo Shoten). Co-authored with Kyoko Tokunaga, ``The Strongest Theory of Theater'' (Asuka Shinsha). Currently living in Yokohama. Involved in the launch of Theater Center F.
 
Mutsumi KETA
Born in Shizuoka City. Since joining the Karagumi Theater Company in 2005, he has appeared in all of the Karagumi's performances to date. She has also appeared in Seiji Nozoe x β x Utervision's ``My Sunshine'', Kyoka Meigetsukai 2012 special performance ``Izumi Kyoka'' play reading live, Seiji Nozoe x Yusuke Miura x Utervision ``My Sunshine'', etc. Her special skills are swimming and playing the piano.
 
Mai TSUCHIYA
Born in Niigata City. Graduated from the Department of French Literature, Faculty of Letters, Meiji University. Since joining the Karagumi Theater Company in 2006, he has appeared in all of the Karagumi's performances to date. Appeared in the movie ``Records of Juro Kara and Karagumi Gekidan'' (directed by Arata Oshima). His TV appearances include ``When I Was a Child'' (directed by Hitoshi Kurauchi). His special skills are piano and Othello.
 
 
Theme and description
 
 
Fujiwara: Sorry, please live!
Tsuchiya: Me too!
Keda: 3 raw! !
 
Poster girl: Yes.
 
 
Fujiwara: That girl seems to be the idol of this store.
 
 
Signboard girl: Sorry for the inconvenience.
 
 
Keda: (Ah, so cute♡)
 
 
That aside, cheers! !
 
Cheers (in the article)
 
 
- God of sake Keda, Bacchus, Mutsumi -
Fujiwara: During the Edo period, red-light districts and theater towns were located on the outskirts of the city, and while they were places that were difficult to access and avoided, they were also objects of admiration. That's what ``Akubasho'' means, and I think it's interesting that ``play'' is included there. I'm sure there was a lot of energy there. So, this time, I would like to start by formulating a strong hypothesis that there is something in common between the energy of theater and the energy of bars.
 
Tsuchiya: I see. Speaking of drinking bars, Mr. Keda is said to be the ``god of alcohol.'' It is said that the store that banned Mr. Keda from going out of business would soon go out of business.
 
Fujiwara: That's scary...Keda Bacchus (lol)
 
Tsuchiya: Mr. Keda is a picture-perfect drinker, but what I think makes him a god is that there are many strangers who take care of him when he is a drunken troublemaker.
 
Keda: I love alcohol ♡
 
Fujiwara: Lol. It seems that Juro Kara has many stories of bravery. That is the legendary big fight with Shuji Terayama.
 
Tsuchiya: Mr. Kara is always an interesting person, not just because he drinks alcohol.
 
Keda: Yeah, it feels like I'm always performing. Once, we were drinking and we were singing a song and he got mad at me. “I’m serious about drinking!” (laughs)
 
All: lol
 
Keda: ``Even at moments like these, lines, words, and stories come to mind. That's why I have to take it seriously!'' (lol) I don't know why, but it's always dramatic like that. But on the other hand, they are also very delicate and sensitive. I think he must be a very well-honed person.
 
Fujiwara: It's just my personal impression, but I guess the delicate part and the bold part coexist together.
 
Tsuchiya: Yeah, that's right, really. One thing that all 16 members of the theater company have in common is that they all have a relationship with Mr. Kara. Mr. Tang provides that kind of relationship. Each of them has their own memories with Mr. Kara, and each of them has words that he has received...that's why they will stay forever.
 
Keda: I watch the person down to the very bottom. That charm is like magic.
 
Tsuchiya: Yeah, I think everyone is under a spell.
 
 
- Encounter with Karagumi -
Keda: When I was 19 years old, I went to see Karagumi's Red Tent for the first time and was so impressed that I decided I wanted to pursue a career in acting. However, I didn't join right away and just hung around for a few years. During that time, I was watching Karagumi's plays, but it was always raining when I went to see them. So when I saw people who were probably members of the theater company wearing tattered raincoats and looking all muddy in front of the tent, I hesitated to enter for about five years (lol).
 
Fujiwara: The muddy image was very strong (lol)
 
Keda: Yes. However, even though I watched many plays during that time, I couldn't find a group that was as impressive as Kara-gumi, which is what led me to join the group. I thought, ``I have no choice but to do this.''
 
Fujiwara: I see. What about Tsuchiya?
 
Tsuchiya: I lived in Fukuoka when I was little, and Beni Tento came to Fukuoka when I was 12 years old. So the first time my father took me to see a play by Mr. Tang was. I don't know why, but I was crying because I was shocked that something so terrible had happened so quickly.
 
Fujiwara: Did you cry because you were moved? Or out of fear?
 
Tsuchiya: That's impressive. It was so sparkly and I was so shocked that I cried. When I got home, I asked my dad what that was, but he didn't tell me, so the next day I went to the same place again by myself. Then, the tent from yesterday was gone. So I just stood there in that vacant lot.
 
Fujiwara: What was that? Like.
 
Tsuchiya: Since then, that impact has remained with me, but I haven't really touched theater in particular. But when I was in college, I heard that Karajuro was still performing in Shinjuku, so I went to see it. Then, the exact scene I had seen at the time was there. If what I've always admired is here, what's the point in me not being able to join because I've never been in theater before? That's how I went to the audition.
 
Fujiwara: That's a really good story.
 
Keda: In the end, it's been 10 years for me and 9 years now for Mr. Tsuchiya. People say, “That’s too good!” (lol)
 
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- What is called underground theater -
Fujiwara: I can only speculate based on materials and legends, but I'm interested in the energy that Mr. Kara's Situation Theater must have had when it first appeared in the 1960s as ``underground theater.'' I think it's similar to the seemingly useless energy you sometimes feel at a bar. Of course, I don't think theater is a waste, but I think it's important to have a place that is filled with energy, a little removed from everyday social life and business. I think theater has continued from time immemorial to the present because it connects with the sometimes explosive energy of humans.
 
Keda: People often ask me, “Why do you do theater?” I wonder if I do theater? That's what I'm wondering about. The world that Mr. Kara writes about happens to be a play. So when someone asks me, ``Do you like theater?'' I can't say ``Yes!''. When I was asked, ``Are you underground?'' I replied, ``No, I'm not interested in underground, I'm interested in creating Karajuro's world.''
 
Tsuchiya: For example, surrealism has a different meaning from the word "surreal" that is used today, and even if we say "underground", what does the general public think of the word? I think it's different. In that sense, I don't think there are many people who are thinking about the framework of ``underground theater.''
 
Keita: Actually. Maybe it's not in that line.
 
Fujiwara: That's what I wanted to hear. Originally, "underground" was a word that journalists at the time started using as a derogatory term. In other words, even though they didn't call themselves names at first, Mr. Tang and his friends created a scene by daring to take on that name. It is true that the image has become hardened now, and there may be some aspects that are being trivialized.
 
Tsuchiya: What exactly is surreal, what exactly is underground, and what makes the person say that?
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Fujiwara: This time, with the theme of ``Bad Places and Underground'', I wanted to reconsider human energy across eras and generations. For example, you often get lectured by old men at bars, saying things like, ``When I was young.''
 
Tsuchiya: I get asked that a lot too. "Your generation?"
 
Keita: Yes, that's true. But there's a line in a Korean movie that I think is really cool, and it goes something like, ``There are a lot of stupid adults out there.But age isn't the measuring stick for people.So, consider that when interacting with adults.'' .
 
Tsuchiya: Sorry, I got off track... Keda-san, I love movies...(lol)
 
Keda: I love movies! I was recently approached about a movie. This is another topic, but...
*The movie " Mahoro Ekimae Rhapsody " (Director: Tatsushi Omori) in which Mr. Keda is scheduled to appear will be released this fall!
 
Fujiwara: No, no, let's just say it. Let's just roll around (lol)
 
 
-What are the similarities and overwhelming communication between movies and theater?
Keda: I've been doing theater for 10 years, and the first question I got when I was on set for a movie I was about to appear in was, "Are you interested in movies?" After all, even the people who make movies seem to think that we like theater.
 
Fujiwara: By the way, what kind of movies do you watch? So, let me tell you three favorite movies that came to my mind right now!
 
Keda: For me, erm... Kusturica's "Black Cat and White Cat"!
 
Fujiwara: Ah, I love it too, I love the soundtrack too.
 
Keda: Tentententententententententententententententententententententen
 
Fujiwara: That's a movie that drunk people like.
 
Keda: When I drink alcohol, I pour a little alcohol on the ground and say, ``I'm grateful to the ground and the sky.'' And I've been drinking a lot, a lot. And the music and that gypsy... (the rest omitted)
 
Standing bar image layout-02
 
Fujiwara: ...It's a world of alcohol and music, right? (lol)
 
Keda: Actually, the process of creating a play is the same for both movies and theater. Because you can be in that state, you can be there.
 
Tsuchiya: When I joined Karagumi, I was taught what it was like to be there even if I didn't speak the language.
 
Keda: It's the same for everyone, whether it's Oriza Hirata or Tsuyoshi Kawamura. Is it possible to have overwhelming communication?
 
Fujiwara: I see.
 
Keda: Lately, I've been wondering if everyone had the same reason for starting theater. For example, a desire to transform into someone you are not. I've been doing theater for a long time, and I wonder if I can be myself and speak to someone else. ((Keda-san turns once))
 
Fujiwara: I just went around once (lol)
 
Keda: Yeah, that's why you can't be in a state where you lose yourself.
 
Fujiwara: Do you mean Mr. Keda is there as an actor?
 
Keita: Yeah. The question is whether Keda will be able to speak to Mr. Fujiwara. Can you say ``Hello'' in a way that will get you to say ``Hello'' in return? Isn't that there? It's about being a human being.
 
Tsuchiya: I think it's difficult because I end up staying.
 
Fujiwara: Ah, once you step out of yourself in a dramatic way, but you're still being yourself, right?
 
Keda: Satoshi Tsumabuki is cool, so it's best to have him do it. I can't become Satoshi Tsumabuki! That's what I mean.
 
Fujiwara: ...Keda-san, the characters' lineages are so different in the first place! (lol)
 
 
- About communication at the bar -
Keda: I used to do acting because I didn't want people to forget me, but these days I think what I have to do is communicate. I feel like I'm the audience, what makes a good play? That's it. I think that's what it means to be able to communicate.
 
Fujiwara: That's the point, after all. If you just want to enjoy the story, a novel is fine. Related to that, I think there are people who like drinking bars like this, even if they have bad drinking habits. After all, I like people, and I like bars rather than drinking at home. I think people are more than a little curious about other people drinking at the same bar.
 
Tsuchiya: There are times when I want to drink at home, but after three days I feel like going out. After all, I want to be with people.
 
Fujiwara: If you just like drinking, you'd go to a bar even though it's cheaper to drink at home. Why?
 
Tsuchiya: Why?
 
Fujiwara: I don't dislike the feeling that the passion of humanity is gushing out, which is unique to a place like this, which is different from the world of social etiquette.
 
Tsuchiya: I guess it's because you wonder what this person is thinking other than your own thoughts, and wonder if it's the same or different.
 
Keda: Yeah, and for me, it's overwhelmingly lonely.
 
Fujiwara: Ah, that's a big problem (lol) Even if you just wander into a bar by yourself, you'll be saved somehow, right? It's strange, isn't it?
 
Keda: I would also like to go out for drinks. Well, I don't make that much money, so it's a cheap place.
 
Fujiwara: This restaurant is also very cheap, because they have a 100 yen menu.
 
Keda/ Tsuchiya: That's true.
 
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Keita: Oh, please live!
 
Tsuchiya: Mr. Keda, you drink too much!
 
 
- Mr. Kara is particular about the world of Juro Kara and the theater company (group) -
Keda: Just to be clear, I used to think Karajuro was the best in Japan, but now I think he's the best in the world.
 
Fujiwara: Oh!
 
Tsuchiya: I definitely think so.
 
Keda: Well, there's something about the magic that hasn't melted yet.
 
Tsuchiya: You might say it's religious, but that's how much I believe in it. Because he is a person who creates a wonderful world.
 
Keda: I want more people who haven't seen it to see Kara's world. Some people may think it's too much, but I'd still like you to watch it. Since you can come see it now, you should come see it!
 
Fujiwara: I emphasized that (lol)
 
Keda: Mr. Kara's world starts out as a small world, like when you drop a fishing rod into a puddle and catch a big fish, or when you chase an ant, you end up in a big ocean.
 
Tsuchiya: I feel like it teaches us that there are stories in everyday life.
 
Keda: What I want people to pay attention to in Kara-san's plays are the small props.
 
Tsuchiya: That's because Mr. Keda is in charge of art, right?
 
Keda: No, no, stories can be created from small props. From this tiny agar stick.
 
Tsuchiya: This (spring performance) we're using Kanten sticks. * Click here for details on the performance of Karagumi Theater Company's "Momotaro's Mother" ! <This performance has ended. 〉
 
Momotaro's mother
 
Keda: The story expands from small things, so it has to be in that space (tent). It can't get any bigger than that.
 
Tsuchiya: I think we want to not forget things that are forgotten, or things that should be left behind but are inevitably lost. If I was involved in that, I would definitely like to convey the message.
 
Fujiwara: Yeah. Well, I'm thinking of going to a festival in Germany next time, but to be honest, I have a feeling that European theater is really worth something. Judging from the works currently being introduced to Japan, contemporary European theater is quite concept-driven and often deals with political themes in a practical manner. But, for example, there are things in Mr. Kara's plays that cannot be summarized. It's the passion of ordinary people. It's not necessarily something that can be viewed rationally.
 
Tsuchiya: Yeah. What I think is amazing is that even though I've never experienced it, I can't help but remember it when I read it. Things like burnt-out fields after the war, a picture of a silverfish across the sunset sky before my eyes, and the smell of a public toilet. Scenes come to mind that I don't even know when I experienced them. I feel like maybe he's someone who brings out the best in me at a genetic or cellular level.
 
Keda: I think there is a theater company that Mr. Kara is particular about. I mean, I could just call in my favorite actors and produce or whatever, but when I think about why I didn't do that, I think it's because I value the feeling of being able to see the same thing. I feel like I can look at the same thing and create it. You can go ahead and say, ``Well, you know what I mean?'' I wondered if there was a theater company with 16 members that could face the audience in that state.
 
Fujiwara: Certainly. There should have been a way to steer in a different direction when you stopped using situational theater.
 
Keda: I think there were probably a lot of different stories. But there is Mr. Tang, who did not choose that.
 
 
- About the affinity between standing drinking culture and theater -
Tsuchiya: Mr. Fujiwara, why do you want to go see a play?
 
Keda: Ah, I want to hear that too.
 
Fujiwara: I don't know why, but surprisingly I've never been asked that. I can't quite put it into words yet, but I think I'm drawn to it because I sense something important to humans. I'd like to explore that more this year, but perhaps I also have a desire to discover something Asian that is different from traditional European theater. Mr. Tang also went to Asia such as South Korea and Myanmar at an early stage. Of course, when you say Asia, there are many different things, but I think there is an indigenous sensibility and passion that is not just rationalism. Having said that, I also doubt the premise that the West is rationalist. In any case, I think that before Tang and his friends came along, theater relied too much on languages imported from the West.
 
Tsuchiya: I think Mr. Kara's plays should be translated more often. I think he's probably writing about the memories we have as a human race, or something like that. So I guess I can trust it.
 
Fujiwara: Yeah, that might be the case. I loved reading Tetsuya Asada's gambling novels when I was a teenager, and I felt that the landscapes of postwar Ueno that he described were very similar to Juro Kara's ``Shimoya Mannencho Monogatari.'' death. It must have been about the lives and passions of ordinary people who were trying to make a fresh start from the burnt out ruins of the post-war era. However, it was overpainted with something more and more beautiful, and it disappeared.
 
Tsuchiya: Yes, we all think there are things that must be lost, but why do they disappear?
 
Fujiwara: This standing drinking culture means that you might be able to find that feeling again. So while it may seem a bit forced, I feel that there is an affinity between tachinomi and theater.
 
Tsuchiya: Everyone is lonely, right? Maybe you're looking for something to share that with.
 
 
- Theater is immortal! (Mr. Keda is inebriated) -
 
Keda: I don't think theater will go away, it will never go away. No matter how many people call me Renho.
 
Fujiwara: That means something like, "Does it have to be the best?" (laughs)
 
All: lol
 
Keda: Okay, I don't think it's okay to be number 2, especially when it comes to theater. But it won't go away. Not sorted.
 
Fujiwara: Theater is certainly strong. Movies have a history of just over 100 years, starting with the Lumière brothers, which is amazing, but theater has existed since time immemorial, although its form has changed. It's not just about technology, it's about having the body to do anything. So, it may disappear when humans lose their bodies, but that is already the end of humanity. It is similar to the history of mankind.
 
Keita: Immortal, absolutely.
 
Fujiwara: His final words were, "Theatre is immortal" (lol)
 
Tsuchiya: Quotes from the god of sake, Mutsumi!
 
Standing bar image layout-03
 
Fujiwara: I'm going to see Karagumi's spring performance.
 
Keda/ Tsuchiya: Thank you! ! !
 
 
 
 
Store) I'll be waiting for you again. Thanks.
 
 
 
 
The three of them then returned to Hirama Station in good company.
 
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complete
 
 
- Here's the store information! -

                                                 

 
Thank you for your help this time "Standing drink"
http://tabelog.com/kanagawa/A1405/A140504/1403898
 
In front of the store
 
Open all year round
Address: 24 Tajiri-cho, Nakahara-ku, Kawasaki City, Kanagawa Prefecture Phone: 044-544-5441
Access: JR Nambu Line Hirama Station 43m from Hirama Station Business hours: 15:00-22:00
 
Standing bar image layout-05
 
Standing bar image layout-04
 
The dishes we had this time
 
Standing bar image modification-07
 
And here is Fujiwara's recommended menu.
 
Standing bar image modification-06
 
 
 
 
 
 
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