Swedish playwright Strindberg, who lived a turbulent life with vast knowledge and rebellious spirit. "Dream Play-Dream Play-", which he wrote freely without being conscious of performing, will be directed by Akira Shirai, who became the artistic director of KAAT (Kanagawa Arts Theater) from this April. The story depicts the pain and joy of human life through the daughter of God, who descends into the human world, jumps over time and space, and gains various experiences. Akari Hayami, Keishi Tamaoki, Keishi Nagatsuka (screenplay) and others will be attracting attention from this stage, which is a hot topic in the gorgeous cast, with Kaiji Moriyama, who will be in charge of choreography, and Nobutada Oda in the taiga drama "Sanada Maru". We talked to Reo Tamaoki.
Interview & Text: Kyoko Tokunaga Photo (Portrait): Masamasa Nishino
There is one answer that a dream is "a picture of a human being"
──I personally like the world view of this play, but it's difficult to explain. I think it would be difficult for everyone to be interviewed in this way (laughs).
Moriyama That's right. We are exactly the same, I like the world view, but the explanation is ... (laughs).
Even in Tamaki training, we are currently exploring how to shape that “difficulty in explaining”.
──There are two ways to draw a human being, one is to pick up the slight changes in individual breathing and facial expressions, and the other is to capture changes in group movements from a distance. It feels like the place where you put your viewpoint moves freely. If you think you were looking at it from far above the sky, you would come down to the house at once and run up to the top of the mountain again.
Moriyama : It's the same in Japan, and it's a play that hasn't been performed much (overseas). Moreover, Mr. Shirai's production expresses many characters with a small number of directors, so we play various roles, not just each one. That's what the role changes from moment to moment. The boundary is still ...
Tamaki Yes, it's like how to come to terms with the role you were playing before and the next role (laughs).
Moriyama : I'm sure the audience will be confused. Is it confusing and natural? Reo-kun has been a young officer for a long time, and at some point he will be replaced by an older officer, Mr. Ichi Yamazaki, but soon after the replacement, he will appear in a different role (laughs).
Tamaki Aha is doing it while thinking that it is a mystery.
Moriyama But I thought it would be good if we could make it so that customers could enjoy it.
Tamaki That's right. I'm sure there are times when I'm wondering, "Who is this person? What are you doing?" When that happens, I don't end up complaining that I don't understand, but in words it's a simple way to say it.
I wish I could make it something like a sense of fun, "I don't know, but it's kind of interesting."
It may sound like Moriyama 's escape route, but it's a "dream play". Anything can happen in a dream. When I think that my sister has come out, I immediately become a person I have never met, or the scene suddenly jumps. In that sense, it's just a "dream drama", and when I wondered what a dream was, I think that this drama would give one answer that it would end up depicting a human being. I do.
── Certainly, while there is a fluffy floating feeling like in a dream, there are many defined stories such as "human beings are sad" and "life is all hard". That said, it's not that serious. I felt that the balance between lightness and weight was the delicacy of this work.
Moriyama That's right. What I learned from the lessons is that even if the words "sad" and "hard" appear, they don't mean the same thing. Don't you think this isn't a sad story at all?
I 'll put it in a ball, it's amazing! The problems that come up are romance, marriage, and quite personal matters (my work).
Moriyama : Whatever you say, there are a lot of trivial complaints (laughs). However, there are places where humans dare to say pessimistic words to convince themselves, and even if Agnes, who plays Mr. Hayami, seriously shouts "How stupid humans are", it is actually very familiar. It's about a problem in. If you turn it over, even if it looks miserable, it seems that you can actually solve it ...
There are a lot of Tamaki , in life.
Moriyama : That's the kind of play (laughs). Theater is a genre that makes it easy to take up social issues and historical matters, and I can really complain that "human beings are stupid" on such a theme, but this work does not. Human beings are stupid and awkward beings who cause troubles with small things, but they affirm that they are alive. That kind of thing is drawn with a nice fluffy feeling, that is a dream feeling.
In that sense, Mr. Shirai and Mr. Nagatsuka also said that it is a human hymn work.
──Agnes, the daughter of God, may be more human than anyone else. Mr. Hayami who plays is the first stage, isn't it?
Moriyama is a person who has stood a lot on the stage and is imposing.
Tamaki : I've been with Agnes for a long time, but I'm facing Akari-chan and I don't know what it feels like in her, but I don't feel like I'm doing it with someone on the first stage. is. I'm innocently in the rehearsal hall, and I don't have to worry about acting.
Moriyama : What I often talk about in the rehearsal hall is that Agnes's experience of the human world becomes an image of her running through like a white horse. In that sense, I think it is very useful.
──It is said that Strindberg wrote the play freely without assuming the performance at all, but in fact, the writing is like a magical instruction (laughs).
Tamaki It says "Can you do it!" (Laughs). "The spirits dance" easily.
Mr. Shirai Moriyama simply says, "Here, the spirits are dancing in the sky ..." (laughs). I'm also a choreographer in the rehearsal hall, so I'm thinking about how to get the dancer team to move and what to express, but it's "in the sky ..." (laughs). For the time being, I have pole dancers join me with an awareness of the height, but even poles can't go that high, I have to get off when I climb, and I can't fly. I am worried and struggling with writing. However, when dance appears in a play, it tends to be an adjunct, so my challenge this time is to prevent it from happening. I want to be able to mix the meaning of a spirit flying in the sky (theatrical) and the expression as a dance.
I want to eliminate the line between dance and acting in this work
──Do the actors also dance?
Tamaki is dancing.
Especially for Reo Moriyama .
Tamaki I'm dancing in various ways, thank you.
Moriyama is saved.
Tamaki This is what makes me happy. As with Shirai-san and Nagatsuka-san's stage, Kaiji-san's dance was also seen in the audience, so it's an honor to be involved in the same work together, but it's a direct choreography. I'm glad I came all the way to dance (laughs).
Moriyama You were also swimming, right?
Tamaki I was swimming and athletics.
Moriyama So my body is very solid. You can rely on it.
I'm scared , but I'll do my best.
──If the actors also dance, do the dancers also play?
Moriyama Yes. Originally, what Mr. Shirai and I wanted to do was to eliminate or obscure the boundary between the dance part and the acting part, which had tended to be separated until now. I want to fill the gap between dance and acting, just like the question I talked about at the beginning, how do I and Reo fill the transition from role to role. Therefore, I would like to create time for the actors to express themselves and the dancers to express themselves in words. All the dancers are given a little bit of dialogue, and some dancers have a fair amount of dialogue, and they say that we should take on the challenge.
Tamaki Is it okay to ask Kaiji-san for a moment? I've always been interested in it, but after having some meetings with Mr. Shirai, the choreography is done. But from the beginning of the lesson, it was done to some extent. I was really interested in where the dance came from. There is a script, we have a meeting, and the dancers move in the rehearsal hall to choreograph. The series of steps is very strange to me, isn't it?
No matter how much you have a meeting in advance, you won't know how to make Moriyama Shirai-san's play until you start practicing. In such a case, I will take a little (moving) stock in advance for the time being. At the same time, it also has the purpose of wanting to know about dancers. Some people don't know how much they can actually dance and what they are good at. So, first of all, I work there (the taste of the director and the ability of the dancer). And actually, I'm the type that takes time to choreograph. Actually, I want to spend many days on one scene. But this time I can't do that, so I wonder if there's something like accidental guidance, like picking up something that was good to actually move. I don't know the details myself (laughs). For example, if you make one move, the next move may come naturally, and although you have a big image (for this work), the dancer has to move the slope for the convenience of conversion. When it comes out, choreography is unexpectedly born from such specific restrictions.
Tamaki Oh, that's true.
Moriyama (moving the conversion set) is heavy, so men have to do it. The situation comes out. Then, because the dancer is not enough, "I'm sorry, Reo-kun, please." So, I think, "Yes, I'm just asking people, so I don't want to do it, but I'll do it too" (laughs). Then, when I decided to dance on the floor with a moving body, the possibility of creating a landscape by dancing suddenly flashed. To put it coolly, it feels like the choreography has come down.
Moriyama Realistically speaking, "it happened by chance." I think about it in my head in advance, but in the end it doesn't go that way, and I haven't tried it (laughs). I hope I can enjoy it. Mr. Shirai's production also said, "If you move it another 10 centimeters, it feels good to be addicted to it, it looks beautiful." It feels like (laughs). If everything is as calculated with such a precise count, I wish I could choreograph well while leaving room for nothing. That's why it takes time to do dance and play lessons, but it's important to make them in the same place at the same time, and I think this is an interesting point.
Tamaki Thank you very much, I'm very convinced.
──While being aware of the movements in high places, the story that choreography is born from the conversion of the set is like the world of dreams in this work, but the structure is that it is attached to the roots of human life. I felt it was in sync. I'm looking forward to the production.