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Theater/Dance

Director Tadashi Suzuki's words - SCOT "Trojan Women" after talk record

演出家 鈴木忠志の言葉 ー SCOT『トロイアの女』アフタートークの記録

``Trojan Women'' was re-performed at TPAM2015, an international performing arts conference held in Yokohama from February 7th (Saturday) to February 15th (Sunday). This work, revived with a new production for the first time in 25 years by SCOT, a theater company based in Toga Village, Toyama Prefecture, under the direction of world-renowned director Tadashi Suzuki, is a powerful depiction of the violence of war. appealed. After the performance, a talk was held with program director Masayuki Nomura, and the audience, including those from overseas, from a wide range of age groups listened to his words.

Interviewer: Masayuki Nomura Cooperation: TPAM

The darkness of modern society

――``Trojan Women'' was re-performed for the first time in 25 years at the ``SCOT Summer Season 2014 & 1st Toga Asian Art Festival'' held in Toga Village, Nanto City, Toyama Prefecture last summer. When I saw it in Toga, I was shocked to see that even 40 years after its first performance in 1974, the work still asks questions about its contemporaries.In this performance, it will be performed in the large space of the KAAT Kanagawa Arts Theater Hall. , I was even more impressed by the fact that it seemed like there was a great darkness behind the stage.

SuzukiDigital civilization seems to have brightened up the world by quickly connecting the world through networks, but on the other hand, it has also created darkness in people's hearts. Similar to the Islamic State, recent murders in Japan give the impression that desires and instincts that modern people thought they had conquered have suddenly and irrationally come back to life.

This ``Trojan Women'' is also not a war like you think. This depicts the desire to completely eliminate one's opponents or opponents. There is no dialogue or negotiation with the other person, and you want to eliminate their very existence.

The president of the United States has also said that the Islamic State will be destroyed. President Bush used the word crusader during the Iraq War and even invoked the God of the Old Testament to justify his actions.

The leaders of the Islamic State are also saying that they are replicating the caliphate, but it seems that religion itself has entered the political scene and is being used to justify their actions. Religion as a political use is coming to the fore. ``The Trojan Women'' was written by a person from 2,000 years ago about issues of war and religion, and I think it's amazing how it reflects modern issues.

Euripides, a Greek, denounces the inhumanity of his army, the inhumanity of annihilating all who opposed it. He also writes that religion does not save people. Moreover, I am impressed by the fact that the main character is the queen of Troy, which was destroyed by Greece. I really feel that neither humans nor art are progressing.

The hearts of modern people, who have forgotten about the people who suffered from these problems 2,000 years ago and are distracted by computers and economic prosperity, are truly in darkness.

――Certainly, after watching the Toga performance last summer, the Kichijoji Theater performance in Tokyo at the end of last year, and the current TPAM performance, I can say that the world situation is getting closer to the work, or rather, this “Trojan Women” I feel that the messages that are being conveyed are becoming more and more vivid.

Suzuki: In both Greek tragedies and Chekhov, murder scenes are never actually staged. Japan doesn't publish recent reports about dead bodies. That's why when I happen to see the actions of the Islamic State, I find the human actions extremely cruel. But if you ask me, wouldn't it be cruel to fly unmanned aircraft like the US military does and press a button to kill people? That's not the case. I think the situation is even more cruel from the perspective of the person being killed. The Islamic State is outrageous, but America also dropped atomic bombs and killed tens of thousands of civilians. So I don't really reflect on it that much.

In any case, I created this stage because I thought it was a time to clearly emphasize how war and religion drive people crazy.

“Trojan Women” KAAT Kanagawa Arts Theater Photo: Hideto Maezawa
“Trojan Women” KAAT Kanagawa Arts Theater Photo: Hideto Maezawa

What is internationalization in the true sense?

――In 1976, Mr. Suzuki led the Waseda Small Theater, moved its base to Toga Village, and established SCOT. Since then, Toga Village has held Japan's first international theater festival, "Toga Festival '82," and has remained a venue for international activities to this day. Mr. Suzuki, could you tell us why you moved to Toga Village?

SuzukiJapan may be internationalized economically, but the places where art is created and the creators are not internationalized. I don't think there is a well-established system for managing a place or place that accepts people from different countries and spends a lot of time working together. What Japan needs is not international exchange, but the creation of internationalized places, but Japanese society's values that prioritize economic efficiency and bureaucratic management systems are obstacles to creating such places. If you can't use your time freely and lavishly, you can't create art, but we're no longer a society that values that kind of thing. Particularly in theater, good works are made because real people are excited as a group, so if you suppress that excited spirit through economic efficiency and management systems, you won't be able to produce great things.

This is the main reason why we moved the theater company's creative activity base to Toga Village.The city is a good market for selling products, but it is not good for creativity. Moreover, cities are not suitable for collaboration with foreigners, and it is impossible to concentrate deeply. Good ideas may come to you suddenly. Without an environment where everyone can quickly gather and rehearse, it will be impossible to produce high-quality work.

――I thought it made sense to think of the city as a market, and to create a space away from it.

SuzukiThe fish and vegetables we eat come directly from the farm, and there's no way they're made in Tokyo. Land is also extremely expensive, so there's no one to cultivate the fields. Planting radishes won't work.

--To have a place where high-quality creation can take place. And the place is not just an ``international exchange'', but an ``internationalized place'' where people from various countries work together. Toga certainly has that kind of attitude. I think this is very important.

SuzukiThe anime and movies that the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry does for business are different, but at least it's not about making money, it's about the value of intellectual work that makes us think about what Japan's future should be and what kind of lifestyle we should aim for. A spiritual project that seeks to create a sense of perspective cannot take place in Japan's big cities. It would be better to go back in time again. Shinran and Dogen were active in Hokuriku, and Basho and Saigyo did a good job by removing the center of power and economy, and the traditions of Japanese spiritual culture. I think it's time for Japan to reconsider its policies.

--I moved to Okinawa last year, but the way I see Japan and its neighboring countries has changed from when I lived in Tokyo, and I have learned things that I didn't have time to think about when I lived in the city. I think I have more time to think carefully about these things.

Suzuki : In the future of Japan, politicians, businessmen, and artists will have to become equals, and we will have to assert to other countries what kind of Japan we should be, or that this is where Japan's uniqueness lies. I have to say that we can answer such common global issues. What is important in this case is that artists come to the fore; for example, it is the artists who make us feel the superior national character of other ethnic groups, not the politicians. Mozart was in Germany and Austria, Chekhov was in Russia, and we don't even know who the politicians were when they were active. But they have become an asset to humanity. The same goes for Euripides.

Politicians and scientists have begun to work together to address environmental issues as issues common to all humankind, but we theater artists also need to raise the issue mentally by identifying future human challenges and collaborating internationally. I hope that TPAM's activities will be a milestone in creating a place in Japan where people can work toward solutions and producing human resources on a global scale.

SCOT's base in Toga Village consists of six theaters, rehearsal halls, and dormitories, and theater artists from all over the world gather here.

SCOT's base in Toga Village consists of six theaters, rehearsal halls, and dormitories, and theater artists from all over the world gather there.

Suzuki training method

--Actors who have been trained using the ``Suzuki Training Method,'' an actor training method devised by Mr. Suzuki, will appear on stage at SCOT. In ``The Trojan Women'' as well, the energetic acting and physical techniques of the actors always created a sense of tension on stage, which served as the basis for conveying the violence and cruelty. Could you tell us about the "Suzuki Training Method"?

Suzuki : Technique is important for artists, but the most important thing is whether or not they have a message for others. Since there is a message, it is necessary to develop the technical skills to convey it, and it is this message that Japanese theater artists are weak at. Therefore, the technology is inevitably low. For example, in the time of Euripides, he would have conveyed his message to an audience of 10,000 people using his live voice. It's natural for actors to undergo technical training to train their voices and bodies, and how to speak, but they can't appear on stage with such a lackluster, everyday body. It probably won't happen. I also wanted to spread my message around the world, so I came up with Suzuki's stage acting training method, and I didn't just invent a training technique for theater in general. Well, speaking critically, many theater artists in Japan do theater as a hobby, so it may be said that they do not do theater for a social mission.

“Asia” potential

--This time, TPAM is promoting an "Asia focus," and when looking at Japan from that perspective, it can be said that Japan is unique in that it has been disseminating its culture to Europe and America even before globalization progressed. . The reason why I wanted to perform SCOT at TPAM is because Suzuki-san and others have established Japan's contemporary performing arts - unique performing arts that are different from traditional performing arts - and have been disseminating them to the world. This was also because I wanted to properly address this issue. Lastly, Mr. Suzuki, could you give us your thoughts on Asia?

Suzuki : There are many diverse countries in Asia, and each of them has outstanding cultural heritage from the past, but it's like a community banquet, and it's a form of entertainment. It's entertainment for people of the same type. In this age of globalization, if you leave things as they are, it will be like enjoying a piece of antique junk. Art has the power to persuade even people with different values that something is important. Of course, there is a possibility that junk can become a treasure depending on how it is used, but I don't think Asians have discovered that path yet. Art is something that builds bridges with others who do not share the same values, establishes dialogue, and encourages joint steps toward new possibilities, and Kunio Yanagida says that art is a work that builds bridges with others who do not share the same values, and encourages joint steps towards new possibilities. It is something that is conceived in this way. It's different to be dragging the tail of one community or nationalism.

I think that the heritage of Europe and America's past, whether it's Shakespeare or Greek tragedy, is junk, but that junk can also be moved to its proper place, in a different context, and created through a new encounter with a different culture. When put into a relationship, it often becomes something useful for the future of humanity. In that respect, it is still not clear how to make Asia's junk shine. There's no point in trying to imitate Western countries, and there's no point in bragging about the old country like a politician.I think Asians have come to this realization, but what comes next is difficult. In any case, I truly believe that theater is a job that requires a lot of energy, something that no one else can do but go through trial and error.

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