Akira Takayama Interview Part 2 – After “Yokohama Commune”

Interview: Haruo Kobayashi (blanClass) Text: Akiko Inoue Photo: Masamasa Nishino

Indochinese refugees who were chased from their hometowns for political reasons and washed up in Japan, Japanese people who were forced to move for various reasons and ended up in Yokohama Kotobukicho, where simple lodging houses are lined up.Although their backgrounds are different, they are all drifting away for some reason. The two men, who were forced to wash ashore in Yokohama, met and had a conversation at the Yokohama Triennale 2014. This event is a theatrical work created by Akira Takayama as a live installation called ``Yokohama Commune'' , in which the Japanese from Kotobuki Town are played the role of ``teacher'', and the Asian Indochinese refugees are played the role of ``student'' ( = setting) was given. However, this play takes on the appearance of an improvisational play, and inevitably deviates from the script of ``Fahrenheit 451'' (*1), which was set as a language learning material. Using the radios handed to them, the audience could peek into the Japanese language school going on downstairs from the loft on the second floor of the venue, and by tuning in to the radio frequency they could eavesdrop on each conversation. Furthermore, in the space where the audience was present, pieces to understand the situation were displayed as video works, and they were able to spend their time in this space as they pleased. Wakaba-cho, where the venue is located, is located between the Koganecho area and Isezaki-cho Street and is a town with many foreign immigrants, and is an entertainment district packed with multinational restaurants. The setting for this work is Nitehiworks , an alternative space that was renovated from a former bank.

``Yokohama Commune'' recently closed with the finale of Yokohama Triennale 2014. MAGCUL.NET interviewed the creator, Akira Takayama, about this work, which involves various elements. The listener is blanClass Haruo Kobayashi.

*1 Fahrenheit 451: A science fiction novel written in 1953 by Ray Bradbury. Yasumasa Morimura, artistic director of Yokohama Triennale 2014, was quoted as saying, ``The art of Fahrenheit 451: At the center of the world is an ocean of oblivion.''

▶ Click here for the first part (recorded in September 2014) of an interview with Akira Takayama during the production stage of Yokohama Commune.

A “commune” for reconsidering the “here and now”

Kobayashi: Today, I would like to ask you about various things, including my impressions, about the ``Yokohama Commune'' that was announced at the recent Yokohama Triennale 2014.

``Yokohama Commune'' is a setting in which 6 Indochinese refugees (Vietnamese, Laos, Cambodia) and 6 Japanese people living in Kotobuki Town meet at nitehiworks in Wakaba Town and develop a one-on-one Japanese language school. However, Hikaru Fujii 's video depicts him removing the monitor that had been on display at the Yokohama Museum of Art since the Yokotori opening and bringing it to the venue, Nitehiworks in Wakaba-cho. The footage showed Asian people removing monitors that recorded their own voices in a very ritualistic manner.

Takayama: For me, the people of Asia removed the monitors from the museum and moved them from Minato Mirai to Wakaba Town, and the people of Kotobuki Town also moved them to Wakaba Town, and both of them are these people here. I just wanted to show the movement because it would have been nice to know. I also thought it would be great if the diversity of Yokohama was reflected in the video, including the contrast between the Minato Mirai district where the museum is located, and the Kotobuki district to Wakaba Town.

Kobayashi: My hometown is Yokohama, so I felt very strange when I saw the video (lol), including Mr. Fujii's unique way of shooting...

Takayama: I agree. The footage was better than I expected, and the feeling of them merging was clearly expressed.

Kobayashi: First of all, the contrast between the two towns is amazing... The two completely different images intertwined very well.

Exhibition view of a video work by Hikaru Fujii that captures movement (in the back space on the second floor of nitehiworks) Akira Takayama/Port B《Yokohama Commune》2014 Photo: Masahiro Hasunuma

Video on the left in each photo: Moving 2 (from Kotobuki Town) Video on the right: Moving 1 (from Yokohama Museum of Art) Video (Photography and editing: Hikaru Fujii)

Kobayashi: You touched on this a little in the first part of the story, but first of all, please tell us about the relationship between the monitor footage at the Yokohama Museum of Art and the performance at nitehiworks, and the process that led to the idea for ``Yokohama Commune.''

Takayama: The subtitle monitor exhibit at the Yokohama Museum of Art was like a prologue to Nitehiworks' live performance.

First of all, ``Yokohama Commune'' was created by thinking about what could be inherited from ``Tokyo Heterotopia'' (*2), which I did last fall. For ``Tokyo Heterotopia,'' we asked wonderful people such as novelists Masashi Ono , Yuu Atsumata , Yusuke Kimura , and Keijiro Kan to write their works, and have them read by people whose native language is not Japanese. I went there, and found that although the original text itself was in very good Japanese, the Japanese that was read was a little cluttered. So for Yokohama Commune, I wanted to play around with the Japanese part a little more. In short, I must first say that the reason why I chose people from Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia is simply because the Japanese they speak is highly different. Their language has a unique combination of vowels and consonants, and their vocalizations are high-pitched and sound like they're going over their heads. That sounded interesting to me. First of all, that's when I started thinking about what it means to be a refugee. In the end, I came to the conclusion that refugees are people who live in places where language, country, and everything else is not self-evident, so I decided to create a work based on the Japanese they speak. The first thing I created to interview them was a monitor piece that was on display at the Yokohama Museum of Art.

*2 Tokyo Heterotopia: A theatrical work in which participants go out into town with a guidebook and a radio in hand, and listen to stories about the spots they visited based on the information in the guidebook over the radio.

Left: Exhibition view at Yokohama Museum of Art Photo: Masato Yamamoto Photo provided by: Yokohama Triennale Organizing Committee

Right: Removing the monitor at the Yokohama Museum of Art Akira Takayama/Port B《Yokohama Commune》2014 Photo: Masahiro Hasunuma

Takayama: Some of them were proficient in Japanese, while others were not, so we lined them up at the same time and added correct Japanese and English subtitles. The reason why I added subtitles was because while I was listening to the story, I found myself unconsciously thinking, ``Oh, that's not the right expression,'' or ``I wish I could say it this way.'' I probably try not to think of ``correct Japanese'' or ``beautiful Japanese'' as something that actually exists, but when I meet people like them from other countries, I can't help but want to correct them. I felt that I was going to lose my mind. In that case, I thought it would be a good idea to subtitle it as a kind of violence. In reality, there are subtle nuances, and what they're saying has much more potential as an expression, but I purposely violently inserted subtitles to show them what it would look like in "correct Japanese." Ta.

An example of the monitor video (subtitles) displayed at the Yokohama Museum of Art Akira Takayama/Port B《Yokohama Commune》2014

Kobayashi: But words have that kind of thing, don't they? When I was learning English, Americans kept correcting me... But that's certainly what I learn the most from, and sometimes I feel like I'm indebted to them (lol). Words have to be shared, so maybe it's inevitable that something like that will happen.

Takayama: At the level of everyday life, I don't really care about other people's mistakes, and of course I often make them myself. However, when it comes to language education, I think the key is to teach the correct words. That's why I don't think that the kind of violence and authority that inevitably lurks in language education, or all education, is simply bad. This time's ``Yokohama Commune'' includes motifs related to movement and themes of community, but the thickest line is what I just mentioned. For that reason, I went out of my way to create an exhibit with just the voices, put subtitles on it, and display it at the museum. By the way, the subtitles were translated by translator Tatsuki Hayashi .

Kobayashi: Does it all stem from feeling uncomfortable with the sound of certain words?

Takayama: Personally, I'm wondering, ``Is that really all I need?'' However, socially speaking, there is such a thing as ``correct Japanese'' and ``beautiful Japanese,'' and this education is gradually escalating. As time goes on, for example, as has been the case historically, the person who speaks the most correct and beautiful Japanese is an old man from Taiwan. When I hear someone like that speak Japanese, I feel so sorry and helpless that I can't say anything...

Kobayashi: It just remains there.

Takayama: Yes. I think that this is the mark of language education. Looking at history so far, I think that the golden rule for occupation policy and ideological control is to correct the language itself. They did something like that in Japan too. That's why I feel quite uncomfortable when I hear the word "correct Japanese" now. If that's the case, I think we should place more importance on movements such as incorrect pidgin-like Japanese, or Japanese that has become a creole. In this vein, Keijiro Kan has now created the ``Iron Dog Heterotopia Literary Award,'' an initiative to protect and encourage the hetero-sounding Japanese language and the language that is becoming foreign. I'm starting to do that.

Kobayashi: The same goes for dialects. It's gradually fading...

Takayama: That's exactly right. The original motivation behind Yokohama Commune was to create a platform where such dialects, accents, and mistakes could exist more freely.

Members of “Yokohama Commune”

Kobayashi: So, what role did the other performers, the people from Kotobuki Town (*3) , play in the work?

Takayama: The people of Kotobuki Town play the roles of teachers at a Japanese language school, and when we were looking for six people to appear in the film, we told the researchers that they had a wide range of language levels, from people like doctors to people who couldn't read or write. They wanted it to have some variation. I first wanted to line up all of them on the same plane and create a state where they could all be on the same line, from beautiful Japanese to poor Japanese. Also, I think there are many people who live in Kotobuki Town who have ``ended up there.'' Therefore, I am very curious about where they have migrated, for example, there are those who have traveled to various places called smug town, there are those who have migrated from Kamagasaki in Osaka, and those who have exhausted their physical strength and finally reached the age of longevity. There are various backgrounds, including those who have arrived at this place. In my mind, this is similar to the fact that Indochinese refugees finally arrived in Yokohama after a harsh journey. In other words, the motif is ``Japanese language and transportation,'' and a major motivation for creating ``Yokohama Commune'' was wondering what kind of conversation would happen if we met.

*3 Kotobuki Town (Kotobuki District): Naka Ward, Yokohama City. After the U.S. military requisitioned the area in 1955, the employment security office and the gathering place for day laborers moved from Sakuragicho, leading to a rapid increase in the number of simple lodging facilities known as ``Doya'' that continue to this day. It is considered one of the three major gathering spots along with Sanya in Tokyo and the Airin district (Kamagasaki) in Osaka.

Installation view Top: From the second floor loft where the audience is located Bottom: From outside the venue Akira Takayama / Port B《Yokohama Commune》 2014 Photo: Masahiro Hasunuma

Kobayashi: When I watched the live performance, I felt a strong contrast.

Takayama: It was extremely strong. It was stronger than I expected.

Kobayashi: I was wondering what the differences were in the attitudes and motivations of Asian people and Kotobuki people when I watched it. For example, there was a scene where an Asian person comforted a Kotobuki town person by saying, ``It's okay, not yet.''

Takayama: Yes, the people from Kotobuki Town are supposed to be the teachers and the people from Asia are supposed to be the students, but the positions are reversed. When we called them, the people from Kotobuki Town used their titles, ``teacher,'' and the people from Asia, ``student.'' However, I purposely sit in a position that makes it difficult to tell which is which, and when I actually listen to it, that doesn't apply at all.

Kobayashi: No matter how Asian people saw him, he was a teacher... (lol) Because he was very positive. From the perspective of migration, I have the impression that people from Asia have been able to overcome harsher conditions, and I think the current stress of living in a foreign country is even greater, but the people of Kotobuki Town... On the other hand, the Asian people were full of hope, including what they said.

Takayama: That's why I think the people of Kotobuki Town are more reflective of reality. I don't think there are any Japanese people who have had the real experience of being tossed around in a boat for days adrift, or walking through a nest of land mines to cross a border, as people in Asia have experienced. These people are coming to Japan and creating a new environment. They're strong.

Akira Takayama/Port B《Yokohama Commune》2014 Photo: Masahiro Hasunuma

Kobayashi: So, you mentioned "violence" earlier, but this contrast also seemed violent in a sense. What were you originally looking for from the people of Kotobuki Town?

Takayama: I told the people of Kotobuki Town that I want them to be themselves. I think it was labor for them because they were paid for it. Since Kotobuki Town is a town of workers, they are very serious about getting paid to work. But of course, when I'm in a public situation, there are times when what I want to say goes a little beyond the boundaries. As I watched their performance, I thought to myself, ``This isn't labor, but expression.'' Personally, I really wanted to see the sense of going back and forth between the two sides.

Kobayashi: So they're more like actors.

Takayama: He's an actor. In the first place, I told them that I was an actor. I explained this project to the people of Asia better than the people of Kotobuki Town, so I think they had a good understanding of why I was here. So I was different from the people of Kotobuki Town in that respect as well. The seasoning was quite difficult.

Kobayashi: I see. In addition to the general scheme, this work has a lot of complex individual content. For example, there were videos and text to be read aloud (``Fahrenheit 451''), so I thought it was quite complex. So, as I experience it more and more, I don't really understand it...

Takayama: For example, we change the pair each time so that the audience can meet and talk on the spot for the first time, we try to keep the conversation going as long as possible, and we try to keep the awareness that the audience is watching as they get used to it so that they don't lose their sense of being watched. We made various small improvements, such as relocating the clock to the customer's side.

Kobayashi: In that sense, did you notice any changes during the five days? I saw it on the first day, and I was wondering what would happen next.

Takayama: Yes, it was. We gradually became like friends, and towards the end, I feel like we were able to build a relationship of trust. So I was like, ``Can I talk about this?'' The content of the conversation became more and more risqué. I can feel through his breathing that he's talking about things that he wouldn't normally talk about in public. Also, some of the people in Kotobuki Town had language and memory disorders, and when they read the text aloud, it was strange to hear what they said. There's something different about an actor reciting ``Fahrenheit 451'' well. So I think there are pros and cons, but I think this is a good way to perform as a theater performance within the framework of the Yokohama Triennale. In that sense, I think I was able to present a way to perform ``Fahrenheit 451'' where you can read one book in five days and incorporate as much of your own history, memories, and memories into it as you like. .

Dare to show it as a "show"

Kobayashi: By the way, of all your recent works, this one is probably the closest to a theater-style play. The audience was intent on watching, and although it wasn't a freak show, it felt like they were peering in. How was it when you tried it?

Takayama: It's been a while, but it was fun. I thought it was hard to abandon the structure of theater, where there is a stage and an audience. Yokotori 2014's artistic director, Yasumasa Morimura, told me, ``I want you to create a piece of theater that surpasses that of an art exhibition.'' That's why I was conscious of the theatrical style.

Kobayashi: Also, I found it really interesting that there were upper and lower layers: the first floor and the second floor. The staff and bartenders were also inside the bar counter on the first floor, and it felt like there was only the audience on the second floor, which made great use of the space at nitehiworks.

Takayama: We inspected the venue and revised the plan. That's why it was a live performance with nitehiworks, and I'm really glad I was able to perform there.

Kobayashi: Mr. Morimura mentioned this earlier, but I think there was something that was expected of Mr. Takayama's work at the Yokohama Triennale exhibition, and that he went outside the museum. I would like to hear Mr. Takayama's thoughts on what can be done in the exhibition, including the above.

Takayama: Of course, compared to theater, you can't control the audience's time at an exhibition. Recently, I've finally come to understand that the audience at an exhibition only looks at the exhibit for a moment and then leaves, so when I thought about how I could get them to spend a little more time with me... I thought it would be a good idea to take them outside the museum. I thought that since I had them come all the way, they would be able to hang out with me. Of course, that can't be done in a museum, and I don't think they'll let me do it. Also, I think people in the arts have a strong sense of exhibiting things, but when it comes to theater, they don't see the stage as an exhibit. Of course, there is no sense of exhibiting the actors. However, since this is an art exhibition, I wanted to create a mechanism that would make the audience more conscious of ``appreciating'' the exhibit. In short, it's a spectacle...

Kobayashi: Presenting your work at an exhibition is troubling, isn't it? Artists may also face the same dilemma that Mr. Takayama has regarding theater, and I think it's quite difficult. I thought it was interesting that this work was not called a play, but a "live installation." It's a name that really conveys the feeling of being exhibited live.

Takayama: I thought that would be better. I thought about this quite a bit, but I thought it wouldn't be a good idea to hide my maliciousness and cruelty by saying things like, "Is this a zoo?", so I decided to focus on that side more strongly. For example, we intentionally added glass windows on the second floor.

Kobayashi: Ah, I see, that glass isn't always there.

Takayama: Yes. It's usually off.

Akira Takayama/Port B《Yokohama Commune》2014 Photo: Masahiro Hasunuma

Kobayashi: That certainly increases the sense of spectacle. There is a sense of complicity on the part of the audience, including the feeling of eavesdropping on the radio by tuning in to the same frequency, and there is a sense of guilt, or rather of doing something wrong.

Takayama: I'll be the worst person. That's why I made sure to stay on set this time. Usually in theater, the director comes out to the foyer and greets people, but I'm not good at that kind of thing, so I usually retreat somewhere. However, this time I was at the entrance of the venue for five days and thought I had to expose myself.

Kobayashi: In that sense, it felt like an exhibit that included Mr. Takayama. The scenery outside the venue, including the scene of Mr. Takayama being greeted by everyone outside, really captured the atmosphere of Wakaba Town, and played a part in the work. Although there were admission restrictions, I felt like I was part of the work, even when I was waiting in line. The atmosphere was relaxed and fun, but I also felt a little nervous and guilty...

Akira Takayama/The future of PortB

Kobayashi: We have asked you a lot about ``Yokohama Commune,'' but in closing, please tell us about your future plans.

Takayama: First of all, I'm thinking of creating a smartphone app version of ``Tokyo Heterotopia.'' The idea is that if you open a smartphone app and go to a specified location, you will be able to listen to the story of that location.We are currently developing the app in partnership with Tokyo University of the Arts. As for the content, Keijiro Kan and other authors from last time will continue to contribute to the text, and Naoya Hatakeyama will continue to contribute to the photography. At first, I asked Mr. Hatakeyama to write the text, but he said, ``I'd rather take pictures,'' so I'm really looking forward to seeing how it turns out. The targets will be mainly restaurants, but this time we plan to expand the scope not only to Asia but also to Africa, Europe, America, the Middle East, and all over the world.

Kobayashi: Tokyo has food stores from all over the world, right? I don't think there is any country that doesn't have it. New York used to be like that, but I think Tokyo is more amazing now.

Takayama: That's right.
The Tokyo Olympics are coming soon, aren't they? In my case, I don't have the opportunity to work as an employee in Tokyo. However, when someone asks me, ``What was your response to the Tokyo Olympics?'' it would be boring to just ignore them, so I wanted to be able to respond in some way, and that's why I wanted to respond in some way to the Tokyo Heterotopia. 》I am planning to do this steadily for 6 and a half years until 2020.

The second thing is public relations.

Kobayashi: Public relations? ?

Takayama: At the same time as Yokohama Commune, I was also participating in the Akita Art Project , and there I did a project called ``The Intersection of Destiny - The Case of Akita'' that had the theme of fortune telling. At that time, we involved seven local media companies, including television, radio, magazines, and newspapers, and asked them to create content related to fortune telling for each medium. In the end, we created a mysterious space by displaying them and actually having a fortune teller come on a business trip, but this project was also about me personally in the sense of connecting media to theater. I think we have made an interesting invention.

Port Tourism Research Center “Where destinies intersect – The case of Akita” exhibition view Photo: Kotoe Ishii

Takayama: It's unfortunate, but in this day and age, when the media makes a fuss about something, it gives the impression that something has happened more than when people actually take action. That's why I think we have traditionally thought of ``public relations as a tool for translating certain content into media,'' but it would be interesting if we could limitlessly link public relations with content, rather than seeing it as a tool. You can move! That's what I thought. In short, I thought it would be possible to do something like ``theatre using the media'' that is just public relations. For me, this is a project that retranslates touring performance into another dimension. I think it's more important now to invent routes rather than content. I think that the possibilities for collaboration would expand about 100 times as much as they currently do if the advertising activities themselves were highly performative, and were actually actual performances, rather than just public relations.

Kobayashi: For example, Dentsu and Hakuhodo, the instigators of commercialism, are exactly like that. The information society means selling information, not goods.

Takayama: Dentsu and Hakuhodo have a big model where they spend a lot of money on big content from major companies. But instead, I want to invent a model that allows for interesting and effective public relations at a smaller level, without spending as much money as possible. My current interest is that when this is combined with places, people, and activities, and it becomes a collaboration, it will transform into something completely different.

Kobayashi: Many of the traditional routes are no longer usable. When it comes to public relations, blanClass is really important...but we don't have the money...(lol)

Takayama: I'm sure everyone is wondering how they can do something interesting without spending a lot of money, but while everyone thinks about the content, I feel like they don't really think about the route. .

Kobayashi: I think the route is difficult. But it's better to have a mix of people, so we need to come up with something. After all, shuffling does not occur because it relies on old routes.

Takayama: Yeah, we have to think about a route that will mix things up. I think that if that changes, new things will come together and content will come out on its own.

Kobayashi: That may be true. I'm looking forward to future developments. Thank you for your time today.