Kanagawa / Standing culture talk Vol.1 "Evil place and underground"

神奈川・立ち呑み文化放談 Vol.1 「悪場所とアングラ」

2014.4.1 Text: Akiko Inoue Photo: Masamasa Nishino
Chikara Fujiwara | Chikara FUJIWARA
Editor, critic, freelancer. Presided over by Bricola Q. Born in Kochi City in 1977. Moved to Tokyo alone at the age of 12 and started living alone in Tokyo. After that, after working for a publishing company, he became free. In charge of editing magazines such as "Expo", Musashino Art University public relations magazine "mauleaf", and Setagaya Public Theater "Caromag". Co-edited with Riki Tsujimoto, "Book Guide as <Architecture>" (Meigetsudo Shoten). Co-authored with Kyoko Tokunaga, "The Strongest Theory of Drama" (Asukashinsha). Currently living in Yokohama. Involved in the launch of Theater Center F.
Mutsumi Kida | Mutsumi KETA
Born in Shizuoka City. Since joining the theater company Tang Gumi in 2005, he has appeared in all Tang Gumi performances to date. Appeared in Seiji Nozoe x β x Utervision "My Sunshine", Kyoka Meigetsukai 2012 special performance "Kyoka Izumi" drama reading live, Seiji Nozoe x Yusuke Miura x Utervision "My Sunshine". His special skills are swimming and piano.
Mai Tsuchiya | Mai TSUCHIYA
Born in Niigata City. Graduated from the Department of French Literature, Faculty of Letters, Meiji University. Since joining the theater company Tang Gumi in 2006, he has appeared in all Tang Gumi performances to date. "Record of Kara Juro and theatrical company Kara-gumi" (Director, Arata Oshima) in the movie. TV appearances include "When I was a child" (Director Hitoshi Kurauchi). His special skills are piano and Othello.
Theme and description
Fujiwara: Excuse me, please live!
Tsuchiya: Me too!
Kida: Three raw! !!
Signboard girl: Yes.
Fujiwara: That child seems to be an idol at this store.
Signboard girl: I'm sorry for the inconvenience.
Kida: (Oh, cute ♡)
Aside from that, a toast! !!
Cheers (in the article)
-Sake God Kida, Bacchus, Mutsumi-
Fujiwara: In the Edo period, Yukaku and Shibamachi were located in the suburbs, and it was a place that was difficult to get in and out of, and was also an object of admiration. That is the "evil place", but I think it's interesting that there is a "play" in it. I'm sure there was a lot of energy. So, this time, I will try to make a brute force hypothesis that the energy of theater and the energy of swallowers may have something in common.
Tsuchiya: I see. Speaking of drinkers, Mr. Kida is said to be the "god of sake." It is said that the shop that banned Mr. Kida will soon collapse.
Fujiwara: It's scary ... Kida Bacchus (laughs)
Tsuchiya: Mr. Kida drinks like a picture, but what I think Mr. Kida is a god is that there are many others who take care of Mr. Kida who is drunk and troublesome.
Kida: I love alcohol ♡
Fujiwara: Lol. It seems that Mr. Kara Juro also has various heroic stories. That is the legendary quarrel with Shuji Terayama.
Tsuchiya: Mr. Tang is always an interesting person, not because he has alcohol in it.
Kida: Yeah, I feel like I'm always playing. Once I drank alcohol and sang a song together, I was angry. "I'm seriously drinking!" (Laughs)
Everyone: lol
Kida: "Even at these moments, lines, words, and stories come to mind. That's why you have to take it seriously!" (Laughs) I don't know, but it's always dramatic like that. But on the other hand, it's also very delicate and sensitive. I wonder if he is a tremendously sharpened person.
Fujiwara: It's a selfish image, but do you think that the delicate part and the dynamic part live together?
Tsuchiya: Yeah, that's right, really. What all 16 members of the troupe have in common is that they all have a relationship with Mr. Tang. Mr. Tang has such a relationship. Each of them has memories with Mr. Tang and words to receive ... So I wonder if he will stay there forever.
Kida: I'm watching that person to the bottom. That charm is magical.
Tsuchiya: Yeah, I think everyone is magical.
-Encounter with Karagumi-
Kida: When I was 19 years old, when I first went to see the Kara-gumi red tent, I was so shocked that I wanted to do a play. However, I didn't join the group right away, and I was playing around for several years. During that time, I was watching Karagumi's play, but when I watched it, it was always raining. So I was hesitant to enter for about 5 years when I saw a person who was probably a member of a theater company who was wearing a tattered kappa in front of the tent (laughs).
Fujiwara: The muddy image was strong (laughs)
Kida: That's right. However, even though I watched various plays during that time, I couldn't meet a group that exceeded the impact of the Karagumi, which was the reason for joining the group. "I have no choice but to do this".
Fujiwara: I see. Tsuchiya-san?
Tsuchiya: I used to live in Fukuoka when I was little, but when I was 12, a red tent came to Fukuoka. That's why I saw Tang's play for the first time when I was taken by my father. Anyway, I was shocked that something terrible happened in a blink of an eye, so I'm not sure, but I was crying.
Fujiwara: Did you feel moved when you cried? Or is it horror?
Tsuchiya: I'm impressed. It was so glittering and I was crying because of the impact. After I got home, I asked my dad what was that, but he didn't tell me, so the next day, I went to the same place by myself. Then the tent I had yesterday is gone. That's why I stood up in that vacant lot.
Fujiwara: What was that! Like.
Tsuchiya: I've had that shock in myself ever since, but I haven't touched on theater in particular. But when I was in college, I heard that Kara Juro was still doing it in Shinjuku and went to see it. Then, the man I saw at that time was there. If there's something I've been longing for here, what would happen if I hadn't played before? I auditioned with that feeling.
Fujiwara: That's a really good story.
Kida: After all, I've been 10 years and Tsuchiya has been 9 years now. I'm told "It's too much" (laughs)
-What is called Angura theater-
Fujiwara: I can only guess from the materials and legends, but I'm interested in the energy that would have existed when Tang's Situation Theater appeared in the 1960s when it was called "Angura Theater." I think it leads to seemingly wasteful energy that you sometimes feel in a bar. Of course, I don't think theater is useless, but I think it's important that there is a place where energy swirls a little away from everyday social life and business. I think theater has been going on since ancient times because it communicates with the sometimes explosive human energy.
Kida: People often ask me "Why are you doing theater?", But are you doing theater? I was wondering. The world written by Mr. Tang happened to be a play. So when asked "Do you like theater?", You can't say "yes!". When asked "Is it underground?", It becomes like "No, I'm interested in creating the world of Kara Juro, not underground."
Tsuchiya: For example, surrealism has a different meaning from the word "surreal" that is used now, and even if you say "underground", it is a word that the general public has as a sense. I think it's different. In that sense, I think there aren't many people who are thinking about the frame of "underground play".
Kida: Actually. I wonder if it's not on that line.
Fujiwara: I wanted to hear that. Originally, "underground" was a word that journalism at that time began to use as a derogatory term. In other words, although they didn't call themselves at first, Tang and his friends dared to take on the name to create the scene. Certainly, it has become a hardened image now, and there may be a part that becomes dwarfed.
Tsuchiya: You want to talk about what surreal is, what underground is, and what that person is saying.
Fujiwara: The reason why I wanted to hit the theme of "bad places and underground" this time was that I wanted to reconsider human energy across the ages and generations. For example, you often get a sermon from an old man at a drinker, saying, "When I was young."
Tsuchiya: I'm often done too. "What is your generation?"
Kida: There is. But there is a line in Korean movies that I think is good, like "There are a lot of stupid adults, but age is not a ruler for people, so please include it and get along with adults." ..
Tsuchiya: I'm sorry, derailed ... Kida-san loves movies ... (laughs)
Kida: I love movies! I got a story about a movie, recently. I'm talking about this again ...
* The movie " Mahoro Ekimae Madoukyoku " scheduled to appear by Mr. Kida (Director: Tatsushi Omori) Scheduled to be released this fall!
Fujiwara: No, let's say it. Let's roll for the time being (laughs)
-What are the commonalities and overwhelming communication between movies and theater?-
Kida: I've been doing theater for 10 years, and when I was in the movie scene, the first question I asked was, "Are you interested in movies?" After all, people who make movies seem to think that we like theater.
Fujiwara: By the way, what kind of movie do you watch? Then, let's give you three favorite movies that you just came up with!
Kida: I'm uh ... Kusturica's "Black Cat, White Cat"!
Fujiwara: Oh, I love it too, I love the soundtrack too.
Kida: Tenten Tenten Tenten
Fujiwara: That is a movie that you like to swallow.
Kida: When I drink, I drink a little on the ground and it's like "Thank you for the ground and the sky." I've been drinking all the time, all the time. So, music and that gypsy ... (Omitted below)
Standing drink image layout-02
Fujiwara: It's the world of sake and music (laughs).
Kida: Actually, the process of making a play is the same for both movies and plays. Because I can be in that state, I can be there.
Tsuchiya: There was a time when you joined the Karagumi and were taught what it was like to be there even if you didn't speak the language.
Kida: It's the same whether it's Oriza Hirata or Takeshi Kawamura. Is it possible to communicate overwhelmingly?
Fujiwara: I see.
Kida: Recently, I've come to think that everyone is the same when they started theater. For example, the desire to transform into someone other than yourself. When I come to theater all the time, I wonder if I am myself and can talk to someone else. ((Mr. Kida one turn))
Fujiwara: You've been around once now (laughs)
Kida: Yeah, so you can't be in a state where you're gone.
Fujiwara: Do you have Mr. Kida as an actor?
Kida: Yeah. It's about whether Kida can speak to Mr. Fujiwara. If you say "hello", can you say "hello" so that you can get back "hello"? Isn't it there? It's about being as a person.
Tsuchiya: I think it's difficult, and I'll definitely remain.
Fujiwara: Oh, I've escaped from myself theatrically once, but after all it seems like I'm still myself?
Kida: Satoshi Tsumabuki is cool, so it's best to have that person do it. I can be Satoshi Tsumabuki! That's it.
Fujiwara: ... Mr. Kida, the character system is too different in the first place! (smile)
-Communication at the bar-
Kida: I used to play in the sense that I didn't want people to forget it, but nowadays I think communication is what I have to do. You feel like a customer, what is a good play? What? I think that means that we can communicate with each other.
Fujiwara: After all, that's right. If you just want to enjoy the story, you can use a novel. It's related to that, but I think there are people who like these bars, even if they have bad drinking habits, but not bad people. After all, I like human beings, I like taverns instead of drinking. I think there is a lot of interest in other people who are drinking at the same store.
Tsuchiya: There are times when I want to drink at home, but in three days I want to go out. After all, do you want to be with people?
Fujiwara: If you just like alcohol, it's cheaper to drink at home, but you go to the bar. Why?
Tsuchiya: Why?
Fujiwara: I don't hate the feeling that hot human beings are bursting out, which is peculiar to such a place, which is different from the world of social decree.
Tsuchiya: Maybe that's what this person is thinking other than his own, it's the same, it's different.
Kida: Yeah, and in my case, I'm overwhelmingly lonely.
Fujiwara: Ah, that problem is big (laughs) Even if you're alone in the bar, you'll be saved. It's strange, isn't it?
Kida: I also like drinking outside. Well, there are places where it's cheap because I don't make much money.
Fujiwara: This shop is also very cheap, because it has a 100 yen menu.
Kida / Tsuchiya: Really.
Kida: Oh, please live!
Tsuchiya: Mr. Kida, swallowing too much!
-Mr. Kara who was particular about the world of Kara Juro and the theater company (group)-
Keta: For the time being, I've always thought that Kara Juro is the best in Japan, but I think it's the best in the world.
Fujiwara: Oh!
Tsuchiya: I think so.
Kida: Well, there is something that the magic hasn't melted.
Tsuchiya: It may be said to be religious, but I can believe it. Because he is a person who creates a wonderful world.
Kida: I want people who haven't seen more to see the world of Tang. Maybe some people think it's not so much, but it's okay, so please watch it. I'm coming to see it now, so "You should come to see it!"
Fujiwara: There was emphasis (laughs)
Kida: The world of Mr. Tang starts from such a small world where you can catch a big fish by hanging a fishing rod in a puddle, for example, when you chase after an ant, you go out to the big sea.
Tsuchiya: I feel like he tells me that there is a story in everyday life.
Kida: What I would like you to pay attention to in Tang's play is the small props.
Tsuchiya: That's because Mr. Kida is in charge of art, right?
Kida: No, no, the story comes from small props. From such a small canten stick.
Tsuchiya: This time (spring performance) is a canten stick. * Click here for details on the performance of the theater company Karagumi "Momotaro's Mother" ! <This performance has ended. >
Momotaro's mother
Kida: The story spreads widely from small things, so it has to be that space (tent). You can't be bigger than that.
Tsuchiya: You want to remember things that are forgotten, or things that you have to leave but are lost. I want to tell you if I'm involved there.
Fujiwara: Yeah. Well, I'm thinking of going to see a German festival next time, but to be honest, I had the feeling that European theater was really a monjayaki. Judging only from the works introduced in Japan, contemporary European theater is quite concept-first, and many of them actually take up political themes. But, for example, there are some Nanimono that can't be summarized in Tang's play. It's the passion of the people of Ichii. It's not always rationalistic, isn't it?
Tsuchiya: Yeah. What I think is amazing is that even though I have never experienced it, it comes to my mind when I read it. Postwar burnt fields, pictures of Ginyanma on the entire sunset sky in front of you, and the smell of public toilets. A scene comes to my mind that I don't even know when I experienced it. Maybe it's someone who pulls it out to the genetic level or the cellular level.
Kida: I wonder if there is a theater company that Mr. Tang was particular about. I think it's because I value the feeling of being able to see the same thing when I think about why I didn't do it, even though I could call my favorite actor and produce anything. The feeling of seeing the same thing and making it. You can go in a state of "Well, do you understand?" I wondered if there was a 16-member theater company that could face the audience in that state.
Fujiwara: Certainly. Situation There must have been a way to steer in a different direction when quitting the theater.
Kida: I think there were various stories. But there is Mr. Tang who didn't choose it.
-About the affinity between standing-drinking culture and theater-
Tsuchiya: Why do you think you should go to the theater?
Kida: Oh, I want to hear that too.
Fujiwara: I wonder why, I've never been asked that. I still can't put it into words, but I think I'm attracted to it because I feel something important to humans. I'd like to explore it more this year, but maybe I also have a desire to discover something Asian that is different from traditional European theater. Mr. Tang also went to Korea, Myanmar, and Asia at an early stage. Of course, there are various things in Asia, but I wonder if there is an indigenous sense or passion that is not rationalism. If I say that, I doubt the premise that the West is rational. Anyway, I think that the theater before the Tang dynasty came out relied too much on the language imported from the West.
Tsuchiya: I think Tang's play could be translated more. I think it's the memory that human beings have, or the person who writes that kind of thing. So I think you can trust it.
Fujiwara: Yeah, maybe that's the case. When I was a teenager, I liked and read Tetsuya Asada's gambling novels, but the scenery of Ueno after the war that he wrote feels completely similar to Kara Juro's "Shimotani Mannencho Monogatari". death. There must have been the lives and passions of the people of Ichii who tried to restart from the burnt fields after the war. But it was overcoated with more and more beautiful things and disappeared.
Tsuchiya: Yes, everyone thinks there is something that must be lost, but why is it disappearing?
Fujiwara: It's this standing culture that you may find it again. So it may seem a bit forcible, but there is a feeling of affinity between standing and theater.
Tsuchiya: Everyone is lonely, isn't it? Maybe I'm looking for something to share it with.
-Theatre is immortal! (Mr. Kida is intoxicated)-
Kida: Theater will never go away, I think it will never go away. No matter how much it is called Renho.
Fujiwara: That's something like "Do I have to be the best?" (Laughs)
Everyone: lol
Kida: No, I think it's okay to be No. 2, the play. Not even. Not sorted.
Fujiwara: Certainly theater is strong. The movie has a history of a little over 100 years since the Lumiere brothers, and it's amazing, but theater has been around since ancient times, even though it has changed its shape. Not limited to technology, if you have a body, you can do something about it. That may disappear when humans lose their bodies, but that is the end of humankind. It is equal to the history of mankind.
Kida: It's immortal, absolutely.
Fujiwara: The last word, "Theatre is immortal" (laughs)
Tsuchiya: Quotations of Mutsumi, the god of sake!
Standing drink image layout-03
Fujiwara: I'm going to see the Karagumi spring performance.
Kida / Tsuchiya: Thank you! !! !!
Store) I'll be waiting for you again. Thanks.
And the three of them got along and returned to Hirama station.
-From here, it's the store information! -


This time, I was indebted to "Standing drink"
In front of the store
Open all year round
Address: 24 Tajiricho, Nakahara-ku, Kawasaki-shi, Kanagawa Phone: 044-544-5441
Access: JR Nambu Line Hirama Station 43m from Hirama Station Business Hours: 15: 00-22: 00
Standing drink image layout-05
Standing image layout-04
The food I received this time
Standing drink image correction-07
And here is Mr. Fujiwara's recommended menu
Standing drink image correction-06
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