Interview with Makoto Ozone, a musician who travels between classical and jazz worlds “Music is the same as language”

Interview & Text: Shoko Hamayasu Photo: Masamasa Nishino Published 201.3.8

"Music is the same as language. Even if the rhythm and sounds are different, the underlying meaning is the same."
These are words that Japan's world-renowned pianist/composer, Makoto Ozone, has often said in interviews. In addition to performing in a variety of formats, including solo, duo, trio, band, and orchestra, he has also demonstrated his skills as a composer in a variety of fields, including the world of stage and film. He can be called a specialist in capturing and expressing the essence hidden deep within the soul.

In recent years, he has stepped out of the world of jazz and taken on the works of the great classical musicians Chopin and Mozart, as evidenced by his 2010 release ``Road to Chopin,'' and 2015 release ``Jeunehomme.'' Currently, jazz, classical music, He continues to fascinate fans while traveling back and forth between both worlds. This interview was conducted while he was on his way to the ``JAZZ JAPAN AWARD'' award ceremony sponsored by <JAZZ JAPAN> magazine . He served as an executive committee member with Masayasu Tsuboguchi and others, and his activities in ``Jazzfestival at Conservatory,'' which he launched for music college students, were recognized and received a special award. There is too much time to enumerate his achievements, so I will leave the details to the biography on the official website, but in this article I will trace the roots and changes of his achievements, and how he approached classical music, jazz, music, and as an artist. I would like to ask about the person of Makoto Ozone, a musician, and unravel his interesting music theory.

When I was a child, I hated classical music and the piano.

- Mr. Ozone has been involved in classical works and performances in recent years, but he actually started learning classical piano when he was 5 years old and immediately quit because he hated Beyer.

After the first 30 minute lesson I took, I hated the piano. Beyer's music paper and tadpoles (musical notes) are huge. If my father (Minoru Ozone, jazz pianist/Hammond organ player) hadn't been a musician, I probably wouldn't have realized that. I used to always look at my father's detailed, beautiful, graphic-like scores at home, so the moment I saw Beyer, even as a child I thought it was ``childish stuff written for kids.'' When I realized that, I felt like I was being made fun of (laughs). Moreover, even back then, I was already playing songs with one finger, so even when I was slowly playing the keys like "do-re-de-re," I was complimented and said, "You did a great job!" . I'm starting to get annoyed (lol). And I thought, "Is this music? That's lame!" That's why I started hating the piano, hating sheet music, and hating classical music.

Perhaps because of that experience, I have always wondered, ``What is education?'' I'm currently playing a big band with university students, and I'll be performing with them at the awards ceremony I'm attending today. I have many opportunities to interact with students on a daily basis, which makes me think a lot about education.

Are you aiming to become a teacher who doesn't become a "teacher"?

— This time, your achievements at the "Jazz Festival at Conservatory" were recognized, and you received a special award at the JAZZ JAPAN AWARD. Mr. Ozone is also involved here as an educator, so what are your thoughts on education?

What I'm talking about here is just my way of thinking, and I'm sure there are various educational theories, but I think the ideal education is one in which the students come and take what the teacher has. I have it. Rather than teaching things unilaterally. In that case, the teacher's role is to make children interested. It's easy to say, "Do this. Do this." But that alone won't be effective. Teaching music is the same as teaching language.

- What do you mean?

For example, suppose a student wants to use the word "but," but the teacher says, "Say 'but.'" This begs the question, "Why?" As long as that question doesn't make sense, ``but'' will always be a borrowed word. When it comes to music, I feel like a lot of people have that kind of education. There are quite a lot of people who listen to my performance and say, ``I used to play classical piano.When I listened to Mr. Ozone's performance, I realized that I should have continued playing the piano.'' . When I looked into the reason why that person quit playing the piano, I realized that there was probably a problem with the teacher's teaching methods.

—Actually, I was the same person who gave up playing the piano when I was young (lol).

Yes, there are actually many. And I feel like there are many people who teach to prove that they are right. Once I was in a position to teach, I started to feel a sense of fear about my job. It's a big responsibility. Even now, I try not to become a ``teacher.'' It's difficult to teach students if you're an active musician and haven't grown yourself. The real problem is that when you become a university professor and go to school about three times a week, you don't have time to study. This will be difficult unless we rebuild the system of schools. For example, it would be great if there were requirements for professors to travel at least one month a year or go on a concert tour. This seems difficult to achieve in the current situation.

A long road to reconciliation with the classics

—Going back to the topic, Mr. Ozone, who had fallen out of love with classical music and left it, how did it come about that he encountered classical music again and made up with it?

The opportunity (to get involved with classical music) came in several stages. The first time I decided to listen to classical music was around the time of my debut. I started to hate the piano, so I always played the Hammond organ, but when I was 12 years old, I saw Oscar Peterson play and was moved by it, so I started playing the piano. But at the time, when I wanted to play jazz, classical music was just a way to practice. It was just a method to improve technique. Even when I played Mozart, nothing clicked. I'm sure he still had a bad impression from when he worked for Bayer (lol).

—At this stage, you had not yet developed an interest in classical music.

My goal at the time was to play like Peterson. I had to create my own style as soon as possible, and I thought of that as the first condition. But now I realize that there's no way you can create your own style at the age of 20 or so. But at least in the jazz world, that's what was expected of me, and I needed to draw my own compositions.

As expected, no matter what I played at the time, I ended up making a Peterson-like sound. I was worried that things weren't going to be good the way they were, so I got interested in the world of classical music again. So, I called a pianist friend of mine who plays classical music and asked him, ``I want to listen to classical music, what do you think I should listen to?'' Then he said, ``Ozone-kun has been playing jazz for a long time, so even if he listens to Beethoven or Bach, he might not be able to get the hang of it.Why don't you try listening to Proco anyway?'' I couldn't help but ask, ``What is Proko?'', and he replied, ``It's not what it is, it's the person, the composer.'' I thought "Proco" must be part of a genre or something. You know, progressive rock or something like that (lol). That was my level of knowledge at the time. So I listened to Prokofiev 's Piano Concerto No. 3, which was recommended to me by my girlfriend, and I was like, ``There's something like this even in classical music!'' It was a knockout! That's when I started listening to classical music.

—That's when you finally became interested in classical music. It was after that that I actually started playing classical piano.

It was quite some time after that. It all started in 2003 when Tadaaki Odaka (conductor and honorary music director of the Sapporo Symphony Orchestra) asked me to be a soloist at the Sapporo Symphony Orchestra's regular concerts. ...But I had previously heard Mr. Odaka say on a radio program that he wanted to do ``Love Soti in Blue'' with Ozone-kun someday, so when I received the offer, I was sure that I would like to do ``Love Soti in Blue.''・I thought they were going to do "In Blue." I accepted the offer without checking the contents. Two or three months later, I called my manager at the time and said, ``Contact them and see what song they want. I think it's ``Lovesotie in Blue.'' About two minutes later, I got a call in a hurry and said, ``Um... I hear you're saying Mozart.'' I wasn't expecting such an answer, so I was taken aback and said, "That can't be true!" out of my mouth. So, I confirmed, ``At this point in time, I can't cancel anymore, right?'' and they said, ``Yes, it's impossible to cancel now.'' (laughs) Moreover, he requested that I choose the song. I had never even listened to it properly, so I hurried to the CD store and bought a seven-disc set of Mozart's complete concertos. I think I still have that CD at home. So, I spent about 10 days listening to all the songs, and selected No. 9, "Jeunehomme", as the song to perform.

—So you decided to start learning classical piano in a very desperate situation (lol)

The day I performed, I was extremely nervous. I don't even remember how many times I played it, and my back hurt because my body was so stiff. I'm usually a pretty relaxed person when I play, but all I remember at that time was thinking, ``My back hurts!'' after the performance (lol). The performance itself went well without any incidents, but when I listened to the recorded sound afterwards, I was disappointed to find that I couldn't play it at all the way I wanted. Mr. Odaka said that it was wonderful, and he told many people that my performance was good. However, after that, various orchestras started asking me to play Mozart at their company. Also, because of that connection, I received a request from someone at my current agency to perform ``Jeunehomme'' at La Folle Journe, and the performance was realized in 2006.

How to interact with Ozone style and classical music

—That memorable song became the subject of the album of the same name, “Jeunehomme,” released last year.

You have to know the song well to arrange it. If I were to do it first, I thought it would be ``Jeunehomme.'' However, it took three years to complete it. It took 2 years and 10 months to come up with the idea, and I had 2 months left to write the song. At that time, I was thinking about songs in the bath. I often think of songs while taking a bath. It's like, "Do the intro like this, do that..."

—The song was born in an unexpected place. Did you learn classical music by yourself?

I decided to study classical music properly, so I went to a classical school for one semester. I think it was in 2004. I had a friend who was a pianist at the Eastman School of Music (a music school in the United States), so I asked him to teach me a lot of things. Things like conducting, orchestration, and counterpoint (composing method), which I had never done before. Anyway, I decided that I would never play jazz for the past four months. From that point on, I fell in love with classical music.

— Two works, “Road to Chopin” and “Jeunehomme,” have bold arrangements, but I heard that the “Etude” in “Road to Chopin” is the only song that was played exactly as written. Masu. Please tell me the reason.

It shows respect for classical musicians. Also, it can be used as a business card for classical music fans. Since I'm going to create a piece that uses Chopin's name, I'll do my best to play at least one piece according to the score, even if it's a mess, and I'd appreciate your continued support. I thought that would be better than a jazz person using only classical material and cooking everything his own way. Even though it's called Japanese cuisine, wouldn't it be disrespectful to Japanese food lovers to stir-fry all the ingredients in sesame oil and season it with Chinese-style flavors and then say, "Here you go?" That's why I played it with a feeling like, ``I'm no good at it, but I tried my best to make a basic stew.'' (laughs)

—I see, it's easier to understand if you compare it to cooking (lol).

Difference between classical and jazz = types of freedom and conflict

— Are there any differences between playing classical and jazz? In a previous interview with another magazine, it was said that compared to jazz, classical music has ``deeper and infinite freedom.'' What does that mean?

Jazz is mainly about improvisation, but I started to realize the limitations, or rather disadvantages, of improvised music. The words you can use only come from within your own vocabulary. Then, I had the conflict of having to continue creating my own vocabulary. On the other hand, in the case of classical music, you are always faced with yourself or your own karma. Include how you feel and how you want to play. For example, jazz is a daily conversation, while classical music is a play with a script. The fun lies in how you interpret it. The more I play, the more questions I have. In the case of classical music, unlike jazz, the notes to be played are generally determined, but I feel that it is similar to jazz in that it depends on how faithful you can be to the feeling that arises at that moment. That's how I approach classical music. Now, when I play, I feel very free.

—The way you approach jazz and classical music is different.

When improvising jazz, you always have to go to scary places. But in the case of classical music, you have to approach it by delving deeper into the subject matter. Well, if I think too much about it, the music ends up being too heady, so my goal is to just play what I intended and have it resonate with me. I can't convey to the audience what doesn't resonate here (pointing to my chest). That's why I think it's rude to play while asking the audience, "What do you think?" After all, you have to play something that makes you think, ``This is it, this is it!''

—This is a very important way of being conscious as a professional that applies to things other than music as well. You will learn a lot. That's why we can resonate with our customers.

that it touches your heart

I feel like there are a lot of people who play music to prove that they can do something, whether it's jazz or classical music. I sometimes look at people like that and go, "Wow." It's just my likes and dislikes, so I think it's fine if there are people like that or people who like it, but after all, there's music that hits you the moment you hear it. For example, when someone says ``I love you,'' there are people who are slow but try to convey their feelings in their own way, and people who are extremely fluent but feel like they're used to saying it. . If the latter had been like, ``I'm amazing! That's why you'll be happy with me,'' I would have thrown something in that direction! I feel like that (lol). It's the same with music.

It doesn't matter how noble the music is, what matters in the end is how the listener feels physiologically. You can't lie about this. For example, it's fine for Argerich to play in a way that makes you think, ``This isn't Beethoven.'' She's probably created her own version of Beethoven, and to me it doesn't matter how Beethoven plays. You are transported into the world of that 30-minute concerto, and the moment it ends, you feel a sense of elation and happiness that makes you want to stand up and clap... This is what ``This is Music'' is all about. And when you think about it, jazz and classical music are all the same music.

Music is a language. What is important is the underlying universal thing.

There are so-called classical police, and by the way, there are also jazz police. Some of them say things like, ``That's not Mozart.'' Well, it's strange that once you reach the level of Prokofiev, no one complains as much. If that's the case, I'd like to point out that there's no point in complaining about Mozart either (lol). If you want to hear performances that you know so much, you have no choice but to listen to CDs. The same goes for remakes of plays and movies; for example, there are people who say, ``That's not Shakespeare.'' But wouldn't it be wonderful if we could understand what Shakespeare really wanted to convey and translate it into a modern version, no matter what form it takes?

In terms of music, it's okay to make difficult and complex sounds, even if they are dissonant, but physiologically we need to understand what kind of chemical reaction the sound itself causes in us. I feel like if you don't understand that, there's not much point in playing music. And when you face music in that way, all genres, including jazz, classical, rock, and pop, become irrelevant. Music is like language. If jazz is English, then classical is German; the rhythm and sound are different, but ultimately the underlying message is the same. In other words, no matter what genre it is, the only difference is the language.

—As you can see from the names of the people you've collaborated with and the works you've released, you've worked on a variety of music that transcends genres. Lastly, Mr. Ozone, please tell us about your future prospects.

First, they will hold a concert at the Kanagawa Prefectural Music Hall on March 20th (co-starring with saxophonist Kazuhiko Kondo), and then a duo tour with Chick Corea will begin in May. Regarding classical music, we will be performing overseas, and from autumn onwards we will perform with the Vienna Tonkünstler Orchestra and the Bern Symphony Orchestra, and next year we will continue to perform with the New York Philharmonic. I also plan to continue holding solo concerts. Solo is where you are exposed the most, and you are forced to face yourself. I want to be able to show my growth every time, and I will continue to take on the challenge seriously. I'd like to revive the trio next year, and I have a lot of different projects and things I want to do.

— We look forward to your future endeavors! Thank you very much.

Although the time was short, it was a rich and exciting interview that felt like experiencing a live performance right in front of your eyes. Afterwards, I followed Mr. Ozone and moved to the JAZZ JAPAN AWARD venue, where I listened to the ``Jazz festival at Conservatory'' performance conducted by Mr. Ozone. At first, I was smiling as I watched the fresh faces of the music college students take to the stage, but once the performance started, I was blown away by the substandard performance, which had a completely different feel from the big band I had imagined. Oops. ...I won't do a live report here because it would be too long, but it's best to experience it live. If you enjoy the music and the atmosphere, you will surely be able to feel the meaning of his words. It's okay if you don't know much about classical music or jazz. Just as anyone who has had the experience of dealing with a foreigner who doesn't speak the language will realize that even if you don't understand the language, you can still somehow understand the feelings, so you can enjoy music to the fullest even if you don't know the genre. I'm sure you'll be impressed once again. --Music and language certainly seem to have a lot in common. Perhaps the reason why there are so many different types of music today is because the Tower of Babel collapsed a long time ago, and the world's languages fell apart... After completing this interview, I suddenly realized that... I thought about that.

▽Click here if you would like to know more about Makoto Ozone's future activities.

▽Please see the related events below for information on the piano concert at Kanagawa Prefectural Music Hall where Makoto Ozone will be performing.