Kanagawa Standing Bar Culture Vol.5 "Boundary and Exchange"
2015.5.8 TEXT: Akiko Inoue PHOTO: Masamasa Nishino
Chikara FUJIWARA
Editor, critic, BricolaQ president. Born in Kochi City in 1977. Moved to Tokyo alone at the age of 12 and started living alone in Tokyo. After that, he moved around, and after working for a publishing company, became a freelancer. In charge of editing Musashino Art University public relations magazine "mauleaf" and Setagaya Public Theater "Caromag". Co-edited with Chikara Tsujimoto, Book Guide as <Architecture> (Meigetsudo Shoten). Co-authored with Kyoko Tokunaga, "The Strongest Theory of Theater" (Asuka Shinsha). Currently residing in Yokohama. A member of Theater Center F. In addition, he has created "Engeki Quest" in various places where he walks around cities and peninsulas with a game book in hand.
Neji Pijin｜Pijin NEJI
Born in Akita Prefecture in 1980. From 2000 to 2004, he belonged to Dairakudakan and studied under Akaji Maro. Based on the unique physicality cultivated in butoh, he presents solo dances that take a microscopic approach to his own body and choreographed works that treat the body materially. In recent years, he has been observing the system that creates songs and dances, extracting the elements accumulated in the body and life of individuals, and trying to invent contemporary dance as folk performing arts in modern cities. In 2011, he won the Yokohama Dance Collection EX Jury Prize and the F/T Award for the Festival/Tokyo Public Program. Appeared in the works of Joseph Nagy, FAIFAI, ASA-CHANG & Pilgrimage, Toshiki Okada.
This time, we will have a casual chat with butoh dancer and choreographer Pijin Neji at the standing bar Shimoda Shoten, a 2-minute walk from Tsunashima Station. Our navigator, Chikara Fujiwara, rushed to see us the day after we returned to Japan from our residency in Manila. Mr. Neji was worried that Mr. Fujiwara's complexion was purple when he met him, but he also said that he himself had a stomachache after completing a research trip from Kyoto to Korea to Fukuoka. The theme of Tachinomi Culture Vol.
Chikara Fujiwara (hereafter referred to as Fujiwara) : Well, it seems Japan is already in a cooler.
Neji Pijin (hereafter referred to as Neji) : It's pretty hot today, isn't it?
Fujiwara : Today's theme is Neji-san, who crosses the boundary between dance and theater, and travels back and forth between Korea and Japan. Also, when you go beyond countries and borders, you will try to survive by exchanging something like currency exchange, for example. I set it up because I wanted to hear what Neji-san thinks about such boundaries and exchanges.
Neji : First of all, when it comes to "boundaries", Chikara-san is also on her way home from Manila and isn't feeling well, but I've had stomach issues since a week ago... I've seen a lot of things in Korea and Kyoto, but I can't digest the information. After seeing contemporary art in Kyoto and the Miryang Arirang Festival in South Korea, I stopped by Fukuoka on the way to see my dancer friend Natsuko Tezuka. I threw it away. That's why I've been spending the past week in a situation where there is no boundary between internal organs. Today, I would like to eat rice bran pickles, take lactic acid bacteria, and talk while segmenting the internal organs little by little.
Fujiwara : I see (laughs).
Well then, let's have a toast, shall we?
Neji : Yes.
Cheers~~!
Fujiwara : Even so, moving is pretty tough.
Neji : Especially since I can only see what's in front of me, I can't think about Tokyo when I'm staying and working in another place. I'm currently making works based in Tokyo, but I haven't been able to take what I've done in Korea back to Tokyo and put it to good use.
Fujiwara : I'm in exactly the same situation. While I was in Manila, I didn't feel like watching Japanese news.
Neji : So for now, let's enjoy here, Tsunashima.
Fujiwara : Yes (laughs)
At Shimoda Shoten, there is a tray right at the entrance where you place what you want to eat and bring it to the cash register.
If you order at the side dish corner in the back, the clerk will warm up the side dish and give it to you.
Yakitori and fried foods that are not on the table or refrigerator will be cooked and brought to you after ordering.
Neji : It's been a long time since I've been talking about illness, but last June, when I was staying in Busan for production, I got urethritis due to stress. People in Kamayama are always with someone, and I feel that the boundaries between themselves and others are loose. Even when I want to think alone, some people will come into the room saying "Who in AKB do you like?" in broken Japanese. It was quite painful. At that time, I was made aware of the boundaries between myself and others, and I thought that artificial techniques for eliminating boundaries between myself might be dance for me. I reconfirmed that I enjoy dancing as a way to serve the scene, get caught up in the movement, and become a part of myself.
Fujiwara : Ah, I feel like I understand a little. People from Australia and America also came to Manila, and they are all very sociable, so for example, when I was working alone in a cafe, they would always talk to me. It feels natural. As for Filipinos, they love to talk, so they will talk to you (laughs). But when I got sick, I didn't want to speak English anymore.
Neji : What do you call English with a Filipino accent? Filipino grish? ?
Fujiwara : There are more than 7,100 islands in the Philippines, and it seems that there are 172 native languages, but Tagalog is spoken in Manila. English with a Tagalog accent is called Taglish. Compared to Australian accents, the English of people who use Taglish is very easy to understand. English is the official language in the Philippines, but they are not native speakers, so when it comes to English, they seem to be a little strange. Often, it seems that the state can become painful, and it is called English panic.
Well then, shall we go to the second cup soon?
Neji : Good. I was curious about the gari highball, but...
Fujiwara : Then I'll go to Oolong High.
Gari highball, a highball topped with gari
Neji : Eh! Gari was this gari! I thought it was a crunchy highball (laughs).
On accents: Tatsumi Hijikata and Shuji Terayama
Fujiwara : Continuing from earlier, Filipinos can speak English well, partly because of national policy. In other words, I always feel like I have more than one language. That's amazing.
Neji : Chikara-san, you're from Kochi, right? Is there any difference between Tosa dialect and standard dialect?
Fujiwara : Oh, that's completely different. What about Akita dialect and standard Japanese?
Neji : I seem to get into intonation at times. "Ka-" becomes "nga-". However, although it's easy to understand how to divide the accent and the standard language, the accent is actually first and the standard language is later, so it's strange in terms of expression (laughs)
Fujiwara : Certainly. By the way, Mr. Neji has previously pointed out that the accent of Tatsumi Hijikata, a butoh artist from Akita Prefecture, is the same as that of a person who once lost his accent.
Neji : Yes. I think that Mr. Hijikata was a person who actively incorporated Tohoku. He's a very sharp person with a background in modern dance, and he created a completely new term called "butoh." It's a great invention, and I think it's really thought through and broken through.
Speaking of dialects, it seems that Hijikata's funeral gift was a record that recorded Hijikata's speaking voice. A company made a CD of that, and it's now being traded at a fairly high price. Personally, I was able to keep my distance from Hijikata-san, who had been deified until then. It became
Fujiwara : I see. By the way, how about Shuji Terayama, who is also from Tohoku?
Neji : I don't think Mr. Terayama's accent is the one he's making. I'm the type that's easier to hear than the locals,
I feel that it is different from Hijikata-san's operation. For some reason, I really like the way he speaks, which is a mix of the movement of his body and the accent of Tsugaru.
Fujiwara : It might be related to today's theme, "Exchange," but when you're in a certain place, you absorb a lot of things, and by talking to the people around you, your words have no small effect. You're going to accept it, aren't you? It's interesting to think that traces of various places remain in individuals.
theater as a medium
Neji : Chikara-san, when you went to Manila this time, it was for the residency production of Engeki Quest, right?
Fujiwara : Yes. After TPAM2015, I was invited by a director over there to participate in a young festival called KARANABAL2015. Actually, this festival seems to be a three-year plan. This year is the first year of the project, so I have focused on research, and I have presented a short piece of work that combines the videos I shot daily in Manila and the stories I interviewed there.
Neji : Huh, by the way, what was your initial inspiration for Engeki Quest?
Fujiwara : It all started with a request from the art space blanClass in Idogaya. (laughs) When I was little, I used to read a lot of game books, so I thought it might be fun to play it outside. However, in Manila, there are security issues, and I thought that I probably wouldn't be able to do the same thing. That's why I don't really care about the format.
So, I don't know if you have something in common, but Neji-san has been talking about "media" a lot lately. Actually, I also think that "Engeki Quest is a medium". Maybe it's because I'm an editor myself, but I think that through Engeki Quest, I can communicate with various people, or gather various things, package them, and edit them. Neji-san, what do you mean by the term “media”?
Neji : These days, the so-called media are not functioning as media, are they? Is it necessary to have literacy? That is why I believe that theater can play that role now. I think it's possible that what's going on in the world today isn't affecting our bodies, but in a simple sense, it's like watching a play in a theater makes you understand what's going on in the world. I say media.
Fujiwara : Ah, as something that reflects the current world.
Neji : Yes. Even if you live without thinking about anything, there should be something written in your body. am. At least that's what I want to focus on.
In fact, around 2003-04, when I was desperately trying to catch up with the contemporary dance scene, I had a vague sense of what was going on in the world today. The works I went to see didn't address social issues or deal with political messages, but watching them gave me a sense of knowing what was going on in the world today. It was in me as an audience member. That's why I think the contemporary dance movement at the time played a role as a medium. At that time, I had a feeling that I could understand something when I went to the ST spot.
Fujiwara : That's amazing. Do you think you can learn something about modern Japan when you go to an ST spot?
Neji : Yes. It really felt like that. But now, I feel that theater, not dance, is playing that role.
Fujiwara : Recently, I took Eiryo Kou's "Theory of Monkey's Theater" lecture, and there you talked about "the role of theater in ancient Greece." I think it's closer to the media in the sense you said. For example, showing the citizens of Athens a play with content such as "What should we do now that Sparta is attacking now?" right.
Neji : I think the topic is related to that, but I actually went to South Korea to see the Miryang Arirang Festival. I heard that I could watch a demonstration of a traditional event called Miryang Hyakuchu Nori, so instead of attending the main festival, I went to see the demonstration. The ending of the Miryang Arirang Festival is a magnificent multimedia show in which the fog blowing from the river, the mountain surface in the depths of the river, the temple on the top of the mountain is lit up, and the laser lighting is performed together. I'm here. Along with the laser lighting, there is a skit in which the Korean people, who were oppressed by the Japanese army during the colonial period, are saved by the Miryang vigilante group. Of course, there is also the Japanese military service, and there is a long scene where locals are shot dead.
When I saw it, at first I thought it was like a propaganda play, but when I returned to Fukuoka and told my friend Natsuko Tezuka about it, it turned out to be about "healthy nationalism and unhealthy nationalism." am. In other words, South Korea is healthy and Japan is unhealthy. The story of Greek theater is the same, but we follow the process of digesting the tragic history that we have fallen into in the past by turning it into a play and watching it over and over again. So it's definitely not propaganda. It is also connected to the fact that theater itself is a medium, but I think that watching theater properly is not anti-Japan education, but that theater is still required as a necessary process. am. On the contrary, Japan is rather good at the ability to reset every year by not looking at it or saying, "Well, that's okay." To put it very simply, in the case of South Korea and Greece, I would say that theater is a mechanism for seeing things that you don't want to see.
Fujiwara : In that sense, the works Mr. Okada of chelfitsch has been working on recently may be relatively conscious of that sort of thing. "How to show what you don't want to see".
Neji : I wonder if this process should be done in Japan as well. But no one will see... Somehow, Japan's ignorance is Latin-esque in a way (laughs).
Fujiwara : I wonder where it came from. I feel like the feeling of "I don't want to see it" must be after the war...
Neji : Japanese people are good at making things work without anyone deciding.
Fujiwara : It's probably old, for example, the story of the Tsushima elder in "Forgotten Japanese" (written by Tsuneichi Miyamoto) is exactly like that. They're supposed to be discussing a certain topic, but instead of discussing it, they keep reminiscing about things like "this happened a long time ago..." and before you know it, a conclusion has been reached.
Neji : There are many things that Japanese people are not suited for. debate or democracy.
Fujiwara : In fact, it can be said that global capitalism has entered, and it seems that we have to develop the economy nationally in response to its demands, or that we have to be good at debates. However, even if I say that the feeling of "not making any particular decisions" is a good thing about Japan, there is also the feeling that we are put into a society where things don't move forward unless decisions are made within a certain sense of speed. Come to think of it, when I was returning from Manila, an American asked me how to say "I miss you" in Japanese. ? ?
Neji : Hmm ...
Fujiwara : In a famous story, Natsume Soseki is said to have translated “I love you” into “The moon is beautiful.” If “I miss you” was an ancient Japanese word, I think it would have been better conveyed by entrusting it to waka poetry. So at least 5-7-5 is necessary, and if possible, 5-7-5-7-7 would be even better (laughs).
Neji : It's long (laughs). It's long and I don't understand what you're saying.
Fujiwara : You know what? (laughs) If we were a race that needed 5, 7, 5, 7, 7 to express our feelings, then we would be left behind in the world of global international competitiveness and so on. However, I don't want to say "I miss you" so easily.
Encounter with Butoh
Fujiwara : On a different note, I read an interview about why you first encountered butoh and why you joined Dairakudakan up until now. )
screw : lol
I will also link to the story of the media, but in Noh, for example, there is a feeling that a certain performing art that has been handed down uninterruptedly is written on the body of the Noh actor, not "this Noh actor's dance". I think. In the same way, it's not me, but the feeling that ``this art is written on my body,'' and that's the feeling that the body is a medium. There was a program called (Sick Body Dance) in which a 96-year-old grandmother who could not walk on her own came out on her back and danced for a few minutes before returning home. That's really good. As you get older, rather than being a dancer, the person's history, the performing arts they do, and the time they've spent are all written on their bodies. So I'm a dancer, but it's not what dancers do. That feeling is great for me. The person that immediately comes to mind is Kazuo Ohno. Mr. Ohno's ego is overwritten on Mr. Ohno's body. That's why I feel that it's Kazuo Ohno who's doing it, not Kazuo Ohno. I'm sure there's a sense of reaching that kind of territory and knowing it, so I think I want to live that long.
Fujiwara : I see. I think a big part of that is that Neji suddenly jumped into the core of Butoh from the start. I think you could say that Dairakudakan had already become a part of history in 2000 when Neji-san joined the company. isn't it?
Neji : That might be true. When we talk about butoh technique, the point is how to create a system that moves in ways that are different from ourselves. To put it simply, instead of ``raising your right hand'', ``raise your right hand'', ``where your body is placed'' instead of ``standing'', and ``move your feet'' instead of ``walking''. , that will change. I think it is a technique and a characteristic of butoh to put yourself in a situation where you are "not me" in that way. So I guess that's what's affecting it.
Fujiwara : Why do you think Neji-san was such a good fit in the first place?
Neji : I wonder why...
I went to see a Dairakudakan performance, and on the same day I wrote and sent my resume. I think there's something deep down inside, but at the time it didn't matter, and for me it was just cosplay. I simply want to be that! Say.
Fujiwara : This is it! like?
Neji : Yeah (laughs) So it's cosplay. Not wrong at all.
Fujiwara : Hey, can I order a lemon sour?
Neji : I'll have a beer then. Oh, and the rice bowl curry was 100 yen. I want to eat that too!
I want dance to be something innocent
Neji : This is somewhat related to the Greek and Korean theatrical styles I mentioned earlier. I feel like
I have an episode...
One day, I was sitting in a priority seat on the train. I'm the type to sit in the priority seat if there's a vacancy, but I was the type to sit in the priority seat if someone needed it in front of me, but it was empty that day, so I sat down and read a paperback. Before long, the train was crowded, but I was so focused on the paperback that I didn't notice. Then I heard a voice say, "Wait," and when I looked straight ahead, my grandmother was standing in front of me. Next to him was a woman in her late 40s, and she said, "Hey, you, this is a priority seat." So, I said, "Oh, I'm sorry," and of course I gave up my seat, but what do you think I did at that time? ?
Fujiwara : Eh... I don't know... Tongue sticking? ?
Neji : Hmm, it might be close. I didn't do it because I wanted to, but I was surprised when I did it without permission... but at that time, I acted badly.
Fujiwara : Ah...
Neji : I have that kind of desire inside of me, and I think it shows up quite a bit in my works. It's like a habit. I say something like a sense of mission and create works in various countries, but I was depressed when I realized that this kind of feeling is at the root of creation. But I was depressed, but I gave up (laughs)
Fujiwara : Like, that's who you are?
Neji : That's right . So what I want to say is that the part of the person who makes the work that impresses me when I go to see someone else's work is that part of the person making it. I am very moved there. I can't say it well, but recently I've been saying that kind of thing is "unusable". It's that kind of "thing that can't be used" that's why it's not even used. But "I can't use it" isn't a very good word, so I have to invent a better word.
Fujiwara : "It can't be used," right?
Neji : Yes. Continuing with that, I would like to talk about dance, but first, going back to the story of the Miryang Arirang Festival, in the last scene of the multimedia show skit, the Korean flag was hugely projected on the surface of the river and the mountain in Miryang. It will be a big chorus of Arirang. Up to that point it's all about nationalism, but at the end everyone dances around it. When I saw it, the oba-chans jumped onto the stage and danced Okkejum (shoulder dance) on their own.
Fujiwara : Huh~~~! ! !
Neji : At that time, I think there was no nationalism, just something like glue, and I feel that dance should deal with such “things that are not used”.
Fujiwara : Oh.
Neji : Even nationalism is no more than an ondo. It's a silly thing, but I want dance to be like that...
This is where the curry came in.
Fujiwara : Oh! amazing! Curry at home.
the next deployment
Fujiwara : Come to think of it, you'll be performing a new piece at the Red Brick Warehouse soon, right? .
Neji : That's right. I'm the host this time, so I'll think about various things. Originally, the points that I found interesting were things that happened unexpectedly, like accidents. However, those 10 people may be shocked enough to go home crying (laughs).
Fujiwara : It's amazing, it's like (laughs)
Neji : Oh yeah (laughs) But everyone else doesn't know what happened. I don't want to.
NEJI PIJIN / URBAN FOLK ENTERTAINMENT
<This event has ended. >
Date: 6/25 (Thu). 26 (Fri). 27 (Sat)
Venue: Yokohama Red Brick Warehouse No.1
* Please see related events for details
Neji : Also, one of the things I'm interested in right now is thinking about what kind of situation would exist in order for dance to be established outside of the relationship of seeing and being seen, and actually doing that. That's what it is. I think that theater is that relationship where people look at people, and I think that's really good. But dance is not the relationship itself. Until now, I have dealt with the body's reactions that arise from that relationship. If I continue to treat dance as it is, there is a feeling somewhere that I want to get out of that relationship. I feel that there is a sense that dance doesn't have to be seen by anyone. So, to give an easy-to-understand example, I would like to walk towards the eye of a typhoon and get my whole body caught up in it. Moreover, I think it's good to share it with several people instead of doing it alone. For example, everyone caught the flu and had a fever of 40 degrees, and shared their physical conditions at that time.
Fujiwara : Dangerous... But when you catch a cold, strangely, you become aware of your body.
Neji : Yes, I really feel like it's not me. It's painful to have a high fever and shiver, but it's fun (laughs).
Fujiwara : Regardless of whether you do it or not, it will be an opportunity to be conscious of your daily actions.
Neji : That's right . So, I'm thinking of recruiting people who have the same passion as me, and who can do things like this.
Fujiwara : Are you going to start a company?
Neji : Yes. I thought it would be nice to gather such people and create a company. Right now, I'm more interested in that than creating new works. That said, you may suddenly want to make a new work, but that's fine.
Fujiwara : Of course. But why is it limited to 3 years?
Neji : After all, being in a group is tough. Don't you hate it when you gradually get tired and quit?
Fujiwara : I'm really looking forward to that company.
Well, Neji-san is a "rolling stone" (laughs).
Neji : Lol. I hope there are no slopes as much as possible...
Fujiwara : But in general, I think that the metaphor of "rolling stone" is that as it rolls, it gradually loses its corners and becomes rounder... but that may not be the case with Neji-san. (laughs)
finish
Here is the shop information
Here is the food we had this time
And today's recommendation is
Nikujaga with a well-seasoned flavor!
Standing Bar Shimoda Shoten
1-6-4 Tsunashima Nishi, Kohoku Ward, Yokohama City, Kanagawa Prefecture
TEL : 045-593-6437
Business hours : 16:00-24:00 (LO 23:30) *Open on Sundays
Access : 2-minute walk from the west exit of Tsunashima Station on the Tokyu Toyoko Line
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